Cameron's of Corriebeg

[SherbrookeJacobite]

Hi All,
I have to admit to a reluctance to post this query, as I had made my way, merrily, down the wrong road for many years in search of my ancestors. A theory, over time, became "fact" and led to much time in pursuit of what has turned out to be someone else's family.

Once I was convinced of the fact that I was wrong (not an easy thing to do - just ask my wife!), I found myself back at the beginning, and started to search again. That search, with some assistance from our DNA study and its results, has led me across the Great Glen, from Kilmonivaig to Kilmallie parish. My DNA matches Camerons of Clunes.

So, beginning again - my gggrandfather was Angus Cameron (Little Angus), born about 1830 in Scotland. His father was Big Hugh Cameron, and his mother's name was Nancy (from Little Angus' marriage certificate). He had an older brother named William Angus( Big Angus), possibly born April 14, 1814 (http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/Patsy/bethel.html), although I have seen sources listing his birthdate as 1811. He had another brother named Duncan, born about 1821. They all settled in the Lochaber district of Nova Scotia, eventually Big Angus moved to Caledonia, N.S., Duncan remained in Lochaber, and Little Angus settled in Sherbrooke (where I grew up).

How I find myself asking about Corriebeg is the fact that Angus & Mary Cameron of Corriebeg had a son named Ewen on June 11, 1783. I am wondering if this Ewen could be my Big Hugh. The age is correct, and I believe it ties in with the Clunes connection genetically.

There was a William Cameron born to a Ewen Cameron (Shepherd), christened on September 11, 1811 at Kinlocharkaig. I'm wondering if this Ewen could be Angus & Mary's son, and if that William could be William Angus, my gggrandfather's brother. Kinlocharkaig, of course, is not Corriebeg, but I know there was a fair bit of moving around happening during that time - and it is not that far away, as the crow flies.

So, I'm wondering if anyone has any information on Angus & Mary Cameron of Corriebeg's family? I know at least one regular poster here has family connections to Corriebeg (and I hope she reads this!). Angus & Mary are buried in the old churchyard at Kilmallie (I have pictures of their headstone if anyone is interested).

I would appreciate any thoughts - and to all those who helped me in the past, I apologize for driving down the wrong road! It was a good lesson, as all the names and years of birth in the family matched mine - and we were so sure they were ours - but it turns out they moved to Australia!

[SherbrookeJacobite]

Postscript:
I have never been able to find out what became of Big Hugh Cameron, my ggggrandfather. I was told by some that he also immigrated to Canada with his sons, and that is supported (or the cause of the confusion...) by the fact that there was a Big Hugh Cameron who came from Scotland to Lochaber Nova Scotia around 1833. We never had any family stories about him coming to Canada, and what I was always told was that Little Angus Cameron, my gggrandfather, and Big Hugh's son, had come over about 1850.

There may be a reason why he wasn't talked about. On Feb. 12, 1866, in Cross Roads St. Mary's, Nova Scotia (which is between Lochaber and Sherbrooke - and this is where Little Angus was living at the time), a Hugh Cameron, aged 83, a native of Lochaber, Scotland, committed suicide by cutting his throat (from the death certificate). I have been unable to locate a grave, or any other information about this Hugh Cameron - but his age would make his date of birth 1783. Certainly, such an untimely end would have been reason not to talk about the person, given the social norms of Victorian society. Adding credence to this theory is the fact that there have been no more Hugh's in my family. Angus, Alexander and John have been the dominant names (although Hughs have shown up in Big Angus's descendants - in fact his eldest son's name was Hugh - but he was born in 1842, long before this Hugh committed suicide).

The Hugh Cameron (who committed suicide) father's name was Angus Cameron (farmer). There is no information about a wife, but there was a Nancy Cameron, born 1783 in Scotland, and who died March 20, 1869 in New Caledonia (which is where Big Angus lived).

I hope this hasn't been too confusing - but at this stage it is like a puzzle that I am trying to piece together.

Slainte,

John

[ChrisDoak]

Hi John,

I am sure many of us over here in Scotland,must have heard the loud expletives floating across the Atlantic when you discovered that you had been researching the wrong family!It has happened to a lot of people,and unfortunately will continue to do so.

I can't say that I have ever come across much about any Camerons in Corriebeg,as apart from one or two incidents,nothing much ever happened there.However,you might be able to glean something from the following data I have:

1746:Claimed for Losses at the Hands of Government Troops:Allan bain,John McVaister,Angus bain,and Sarah McVaister.(All McMasters).

1747:Possessors:Angus bain 1/2,John McSoirle 3/8,Allan McIan vic Allan 1/8.(Apologies - these are the best I can do with typing the fractions)

1749:Possessors:John McVaister,Angus McVaister,Donald Cameron,Ewan McLean,and Allan McVaister.

1755:Renters:John and Angus McVaister,Donald Cameron,Ewan McLean,and Allan McVaister (also refers to himself in a number of documents as "Allan Cameron").

1760:Possessors:"4no.".

1766:In Arrears of Rent:John McMaster.

1771:In Arreaes of Rent:Ewan Cameron.

1777:21 Year Lease granted to:John,Donald and Allan McMaster,and Angus Cameron.

1784:Fassifern Notebook relating to Potato Sales to them:"Angus,son of Samuel,and Ewan beg".

1785:Rental:John McMaster 1/2,Allan McMaster 1/16,Mary McColl 1/8 + 1/16,D.Cameron 1/16,Angus Cameron 1/16,and Ground Officer 1/8.

1787:Fassifern Notebook relating to Potato Sales to them:Allan Cumming and Donald Cameron.

1788:Rental:"Four McMasters and Three Camerons".

1788:Eviction Summons served on Mary McColl,relict of Alexander Cameron,and her son Donald Cameron.(note:Mary was still living at Corribeg in 1810).

In addition to the above,Donald McCoil oig Cameron,nicknamed "The Captain",a notorious thief and a resident of Corribeg,was hung at Inverlochy in 1752.His brother Allan,also of Corribeg,died the same year (but of natural causes).The previous year,possibly another brother,Dougal more McCoil vic vic Cuil Cameron,left Corribeg in 1751 to live in Achnaherrie (near Strone).

I noticed in the Kilmallie Parish Records that Angus Cameron and Mary Cameron had a son Donald baptized in 1776,and a couple with the same names,had a daughter Catherine baptized in nearby Callop (Glenfinnan) in 1778.

The Notebook of 1784 referred to Ewan Cameron as "Ewan beg".I wonder if that was why your Hugh was called "Ewan mor" - to distinguish him from a grandfather perhaps?

Regards,Chris.

[SherbrookeJacobite]

Hi Chris
Thank you so much for that - I really appreciate the assistance. Actually at first there were no expletives - it was more a feeling of stunned disbelief. I had been researching them for so long - I felt like I had lost something. My worry now is: where I have posted incorrect information, that will lead someone, perhaps years from now, down the same wrong road?

I will keep looking, and the information you have provided will be very useful as I look!
Thanks again,

John

[robertscam]

I don't think we have any of your wrong information attached to the Australian family, John. When we last talked about this it was the one attached to the Angus13 family of our Cameron Genealogies, but that's a little while back. You might let me know if it's another family you are thinking about now.

Good luck - and never ignore a lead from Chris!

Bob

[SherbrookeJacobite]

Hi Bob,
Thanks very much for your post. You have an amazing memory to remember the family I was researching! I am certain that you don't have any of my incorrect info attached to that family on your website.

And I never ignore any leads from Chris - he has been a wonderful help over the years to many, including myself.

It was great to meet you this past summer - you have helped so many as well!
I truly appreciate the work that you have put into your genealogical page, and I have referred to it many times.

Slainte,

John

[ChrisDoak]

Hi John,
Would I be right in assuming that the maiden name of Wee Angus's mother Nancy was Cameron? Or is there just a blank space on the Marriage Certificate?

I ask,because I have been having a trawl through the Parish Records for Lochaber area,to try and locate any Ewan Cameron/Ann Cameron couples living there at the beginning of the 19th century.I found three:

1.A Ewan Cameron and an Ann Cameron,Achintore,who had twins Duncan and Ann baptized on 24 October 1812.

2.Ewan Cameron,drover,Ratlich,who married Nany Cameron of Braeroy on 9 January 1820.They subsequently had three children recorded whilst living in Lickroy:
-Donald,born 15 April 1821.
-Catherine,born 16 February 1824.
-Ann,born 13 February 1826.

3.Ewan Cameron and Ann Cameron,resident in Camdale,had three children recorded:
-Duncan,born 11 July 1821.
-Peggy,born 2 October 1825.
-Angus,born 28 January 1828.

This last family look very promising,as long as Nancy's maiden surname was Cameron!Any Peggys/Margarets show up in the family tree?I had a look in the 1841 Census,but there was no sign of this family unit still being recorded as resident in Lochaber.Maybe some of them were there as individuals,bit it would be difficult to identify them.

Camdale,incidentally,was a small cluster of houses on the southern part of the Banavie Farm.To reference a fine wee book entitled "The Lochaber Geographic Compendium",by oor ain Tom Cameron (and available from all good Clan Cameron Museums),Camaghael/Cam-Dhail lies on the fringe of the Blar Mor (Corpach Moss),at the junction of the River Lochy and the River Lundy.

What do you reckon?

Cheers,Chris.

[SherbrookeJacobite]

Hi Chris,
Thank you so much - once again for your help. I sincerely appreciate your interest and your assistance. Sorry I have been slow in responding - I started to several times and got interrupted, and for the past week I have been away in the hills hunting elk.
The last family does indeed look interesting. The record I referenced to get the parents of Wee Angus was a marriage register, and there is a column headed "parents" under this heading they are listed as "Hugh & Nancy". Other info from the register indicates that Angus is 62 (in 1892), a Presbyterian, was born in Scotland, and his father was a farmer.
Census info through the years has recorded Angus' age/birthdate variously - with enough variation that 1828 is certainly possible. His headstone records his birthdate as Feb., 1830. The 1901 Canadian census lists his birthdate as February 1, 1830, and lists his birthplace as Nova Scotia. In all of the documents I have seen, other than this one, his birthplace has been listed as Scotland, but nothing more specific than Lochaber.
The 1881 census gives his age as 54 - which would have him born in 1827, and lists his birthplace as Scotland.
Duncan Cameron, his brother, is listed in the 1891 census as being 70 years old, and born in Scotland.
Big Angus, variously listed over the years as Angus William, or William Angus, the eldest brother - is listed as being 68 in 1881. Interestingly, he has a daughter named Magie (spelled as per census document).

It definitely bears further looking into. Camdale also makes sense. My grandfather, who passed away in 1974, always told me Little Angus came from Fort William. My grandfather was born in 1894, so he was 9 or so when Little Angus, his grandfather, passed away. It makes sense that they would describe the place they came from as the closest town (although the same would hold true for almost anywhere in Lochaber). I am familiar with Camdale - it is behind Lochaber High School I believe?

"The Lochaber Geographic Compendium" is an awesome resource - and one that anyone who is interested in Lochaber needs to have. It is more thorough and detailed, and has more accurate gaelic references than Somerled MacMillan's "Bygone Lochaber", and doesn't have the latter's prejudicial overtones. (a wee plug for a fine wee book!).

Thank you again Chris! You are an amazing and invaluable resource for us, and greatly appreciated.

Moran taing,

John

[ChrisDoak]

Hi John,

Camaghael (as I have always known it) does indeed lie behind Lochaber High School,though I have never been along the road that way - I keep meaning to go round there on the bike for a look,but have never managed.Maybe next time I am up in Lochaber.

I didn't realise that the Canadian Census for 1900 included a section for the individual's birthdate - very handy.The sister Peggy/Margaret might be located/confirmed this way,through the labourious task of checking out all the Margaret Camerons who got married in your part of Canada in the 1840/50/60s.Hopefully,she will still be alive at in 1900.Angus in Camdale,incidentally,whilst being born on 28 January 1828,was baptized on 7 February.How easy would it be for someone to mistake a 7 for a 1?

It is slightly difficult to see how William Angus fits in with this family.However,as the Kilmallie Parish Records only exist from 1813 onwards,it does explain why there is no marriage record for Ewen/Hugh and Nancy/Ann.

Going off at a tangent,your first post mentioned that you had the same DNA as the Camerons in Clunes.Looking at the results listed on this website,I see that the Cameron whose DNA matches yours,wishes to stay anonymous.Without giving away anything which would be of a confidential nature,do you know if they are directly descended from a head of the Cameron of Clunes family,and if so who?It might be easier trying to track your line down from a common ancestor.

Regards,Chris.

[Thomas Cameron]

Gents,

I was in Camaghael, and have an amusing story about the visit!

Back in 2007 I had a chance to make a trip past the high school (when returning for an afternoon Mod event), to see what was down there. As I drove down the road, a local resident flagged me down. He said "there's a wee coo in the road." Sure enough, just around the bend two cows were walking straight down the middle of the road. Definitely no way around them, so I sat there and watched these two wander to and fro. Quite fun, actually, the highlight of my visit to Camaghael. There didn't seem to be a whole lot to see, besides a few businesses that had seen better days. I didn't have time to poke around, looking for anything of historic interest, but it was a memorable side trip.

Thanks to both John and Chris, for the very nice comments on the Compendium. They're available via the Clan Cameron Museum, as you both know, and also (from what I've just recently learned) via a number of outlets in and around Fort William. We're working on a version that will be readily available in North America as well.

[SherbrookeJacobite]

On those coos! Last week, while I was hunting, a number of times we had to stop and wait for cows to clear the road (here in Southern Alberta they outnumber people). It is interesting when you are driving with someone who raises cattle for a living - they hardly slow down! The cows always get out of the way, in a hurry when you get close to them!

The compendium is a great resource - and I really just enjoy reading it. I find the subject material fascinating.

[SherbrookeJacobite]

Hi Chris,
Thanks again! I will see if I can find a Peggy or Margaret, although it is possible that she never made it to Canada. There are several Margaret Camerons, of approximately the right age, living in Lochaber, Nova Scotia in the 1800's (which is where William Angus and Duncan lived when they first came to Canada. I will start sorting through the census of 1900 to see if I can match one of them up.
Angus' baptism date also is intriguing. It would indeed be an easy mistake to make.
William Angus never seems to fit - but I did find a William Cameron, son of Ewen Cameron, Shepard at Kinlocharkaig, born in 1811. Somerled MacMillan makes reference to some MacMillans of Glendessary who were cleared from their farms and relocated to Camaghael. It is possible that this Ewen would have been relocated at the same time. There was a Ewen Cameron, born to Angus & Mary Cameron of Corriebeg on June 11, 1783 - which would make him the right age. I am not sure where this Angus (Corriebeg) Cameron came from (I recall somewhere seeing that his father was Hugh or Ewen, but I can't put my finger on that info right now) but the Camerons of nearby Kinlochiel were related to Camerons of Clunes, which ties into the DNA test result.

My DNA match is descended from a Donald Cameron, who was the son of John Cameron of Clunes, and Mary Cameron of Glen Nevis. They all wound up in Canada - but in Ontario, and we don't have a common ancestor on this side of the Atlantic, so it must be back your farther. It could even predate Clunes. He has been in touch with you, as he has mentioned your name on at least one occasion.

Although I do feel I am grasping at straws here - it is fun! I am re-enthused about genealogy again, and truly appreciate your assistance.

All the best,

John

[cabooky]

Hi Chris and John

a note on the DNA match...John's 12 markers are an exact match for the first 12 markers of John Grant Cameron, a direct descendant of Donald Clunes Cameron of the '45 and suggest a common ancestor a very very long time ago (I think it's around 1000 years). You can get more precise and see whether John may be directly linked to that family within more recent history with 37 or 67 markers.

That said, I think looking more closely in Lochaber isn't a bad idea.

Best
Kim Taylor
co-Clan DNA Project administrator

[Thomas Cameron]

Hi Kim,

Goood to see our resident DNA expert here on the boards - looking forward to your comments as we move forward, with both the DNA project and Cameron genealogy.

[SherbrookeJacobite]

Hi Kim,
Thanks so much. I really appreciate you taking the time to help out. I really do need to upgrade my test to at least the 37 marker - and see where that leads us.

From the Family Tree DNA site - here are the probabilities of a common ancestor, based on the 12 marker test.

"In comparing 12 markers, the probability that John Grant Cameron and John F. Cameron shared a common ancestor within the last...

Comparison Chart
4 generations is 33.57%
8 generations is 55.88%
12 generations is 70.69%
16 generations is 80.53%
20 generations is 87.07%
24 generations is 91.41% "

So, there is a fairly high probability that we shared a common ancestor within the past 12 generations - which, using 40 years as an average generation, puts us back to around 1529. This means that our common ancestor could indeed predate Clunes. I will proceed with ordering my 37 marker update & will post the results when I get them.
Moran Taing!

John

[SherbrookeJacobite]

I just ordered a 37 marker upgrade - here's hoping it leads to someone!

[SherbrookeJacobite]

Well my 25 marker test results are in (still waiting on the 37 marker test). I am a match, with a genetic distance of two, from 5 Camerons in the project, who have at least 25 markers identified. The only two who have confirmed their ancestry back any distance, both trace their familes from Clunes. I will wait to see if the results hold up with the 37 markers. I am wondering, given the two markers off at 25 if the common ancestor maybe back farther - Camerons of Erracht, or even the Lochiel family (where so many branches of the family originally stem from). I guess (hope) that time and research will provide some answers.

Interestingly, I have two MacMillan matches who are 1 marker off. Given the geographic proximity of our families, I guess this shouldn't be shocking, but it leads me to some interesting speculation about the connection.

Something else that seems to be evident from the testing - looking at the origins of the Camerons who are descended from Clunes, and therefore originally from the Lochiel family - it appears that the Camerons were indeed Gaels, and not Danish or Norman - as has been suggested by at least one author.

[cabooky]

Hi John

I'm as anxious to see how test results compare as everyone else..

I ran yours compared to the Clunes line (144395) and a line we thought ended in Quebec (29051) but now may have documented for back to Scotland..once the attic gets dealt with.
The genetic distance of 4 translates to about 660 years between either of these two families.
Well, at least you're ruled out tracking down all the Errachts and Lochiels since the 1500s.
Have you tried tracking the McMillans?

Cheers
Kim

[SherbrookeJacobite]

Hi Kim,
Thanks for your note, I appreciate your interest, and your assistance with the DNA project.

From reading the information on the Family Tree DNA site - I think there are more possibilities. The genetic distance leads to probabilities of a common ancestor within a certain time frame. The fact that we share a common surname increases that probability. From the website - the genetic distance I have from my Cameron matches at the 37 marker level leads to the following probabilty.

The Clunes descendants - there is a 56.62 % chance that we have a common ancestor in the last 12 generations (300 years in FTDNA calculations). There is a 96.84% chance that we have a common ancestor in the last 24 generations (600 years).

The other two matches have similar results. Therefore there is an overwhelming probability that we have a common ancestor between 300 - 600 years ago. Sometime between 1409 and 1709. 660 years would be the outer limit of probability. Given the fact that surnames weren't commonly adopted until the latter part of that era, that further narrows the window. So I don't think I could discount the Erracht or Lochiel families, especially since the Clunes descendants are 3 markers away (genetic distance of 4) - the answer could lie within one of those two familes. I think that a connection with the Lochiel family is probable, but distant, as that family's tree is fairly well documented, at least over the past 400 years or so. Erracht I am not so sure of. There were lots of sons of Erracht in the mid 1600's, and descent from one of them is possible. It would be great if we had someone who knew their ancestry was from Erracht in the project. My oldest ancestor's name was Hugh Cameron, and he was known as Big Hugh - and interestingly there is a Big Hugh Cameron in the Clunes family (not my ancestor, but perhaps a family name tradition?)

I haven't contacted the MacMillans - but I will. I see two possibilities there. One is that the MacMillan connection is way back, and there is a Cameron connection to the MacMillan family. Undoubtedly there were MacMillans who eventually took the name Cameron. What leads me to think that is not the explanation in this case is the fact that I am genetically connected to the Camerons of Clunes, who are descended from the Lochiel family, through the Camerons of Erracht. The only plausible possibility in that case is a common origin of MacMillans and Camerons (wouldn't Somerled MacMillan love that!) The other possibility is that one of our ancestors was - well you know ;-) .
I do have MacMillan relatives in Canada, but the connection there is through marriage, as my ggguncle, Duncan Cameron had a daughter who married a MacMillan.

To recap - for anyone who reads this - here is what I know:
My gggrandfather was Angus Cameron, born 1830 (or so) in Lochaber, Scotland - his parents were Big Hugh and Nancy Cameron.

One possibilty is: Angus and Mary Cameron of Corriebeg had a son named Ewen (Hugh) born June 11, 1783. (If anyone has any information on where Angus came from prior to Corriebeg (which was originally settled by MacMasters), that may prove very helpful)).

A Ewen Cameron (possibly the same Ewen) had a son named William christened on September 11, 1811 at Kinlocharkaig. A Ewan and Nancy Cameron had a Duncan, Peggy and Angus Cameron (born 1828) - and they lived at Camdale (Camaghael). In the early 1800's - some people who were cleared from the Kinlocharkaig area settled in Camdale. So - this is possibly my family.

Time may tell - and if not, the searching is great fun! The DNA testing certainly adds a great deal to the search, and helps to focus it.

Regardless of who I am descended from, I am enormously proud to be part of the greatest Clan in the Highlands - and thank everyone for their interest and their input.


I will let update the board on what I find out from the MacMillans.

Slainte,

John

[SherbrookeJacobite]

Hi All,
Often the simplest solutions are the most likely, and the mystery of my genetic connection to the Camerons of Clunes may be quite simple. If the Ewen Cameron, born in 1783 to Angus and Mary Cameron of Corrybeg, is my "Big Hugh" Cameron, then the genetic connection is probably thus:
The Camerons who lived at Corrybeg were "Sliochd Iain Dhuibh" , descendants of the Camerons of Kinlochiel. This branch of the family were descended from John Dow MacEwen, one of the sons of Ewen Allenson, by his second wife. Marjory MacIntosh. He was the twin brother of Ewen Cameron of Erracht. The Camerons of Clunes were descended from Ewen MacEwen of Erracht through his grandson Allan.

I am also assuming that Angus Cameron of Corrybeg was related to the other Camerons at Corrybeg at that time, which includes the family of Mary Cameron MacKellar, poet, bardess of Clan Cameron, and one of the founding members of the Clan Cameron Association!

If my thory is correct, then our common ancestor would be Ewen Allanson. Ewen Allanson lived circa 1480 - 1546, which would be 530 to 464 years ago - which ties perfectlyinto the time frames given in the DNA study probabilitites.

This all makes sense, and ties together, but until I can (if I can!) tie together definatively Angus of Corrybeg and Big Hugh, it remains just a theory, albeit a plausible one.

If anyone has any info on the Camerons at Corriebeg it woul dbe greatly appreciated.

Slainte,

John