JCameron
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lover of ales
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Post by JCameron on Apr 21, 2004 6:17:02 GMT -6
I'm aware of just as many black people with the Cameron surname as I am white people. How did people of African descent aquire the name? Slavery? Protection?
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Post by SherbrookeJacobite on Apr 21, 2004 8:37:34 GMT -6
I am certainly no expert on this subject, but I do know one way that people of African descent came to have Scottish Highland surnames.
After Culloden, a number of Jacobite soldiers were sent to the colonies as slaves. In some places, like the West Indies, they intermarried with people of African descent. I don't know of any Camerons with this history, but I have heard of some MacDonalds. There is no reason to believe the same thing couldn't have happened with Camerons.
These people were not adopted into the Clan, but are genetically connected to it the same way that we (who do not have any african ancestors) are.
Here in Canada, many of the earliest explorers to the Canadian West were Scots. Some of them married into the native tribes who lived here. Thus we have natives with names like MacDonald (those MacDonalds certainly were a prolific bunch) , MacDougall, MacLeod, etc..
Later on, as the West began to open up, settlers with Scottish backgrounds were very surprised to meet natives who knew some gaelic. A situation like this was illustrated by Allister MacLeod in his excellent novel "No Great Mischief" (if you haven't read it, I highly recommend it). In the book some miners from Cape Breton, who are MacDonalds, meet an Indian who is also a MacDonald. They become friends with him and call him "Cousin agam fhein" which means "Cousin of my own".
I'm rambling again - I would like to say that all Camerons are welcome in this Clan, regardless of what shade they are. We should take our motto "Unite Together" quite literally.
Slainte,
John
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Post by SherbrookeJacobite on Apr 21, 2004 8:53:22 GMT -6
I should also mention that the English were not the only ones who sent Highlanders into slavery. Later on, some Clan Chiefs were actually guilty of selling their clansmen (not Camerons).
Great website by the way! I too am a lover of Ales, and buffalo wings (with blue cheese dressing). Must be genetic.
Mar sin leat,
John
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JCameron
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lover of ales
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Post by JCameron on Apr 21, 2004 9:36:09 GMT -6
Thanks for taking the time to check the site. Its been a while since I've updated it (My son will be 2 in a few weeks!). Thank for your response as well.
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Post by Thomas Cameron on Apr 21, 2004 16:57:51 GMT -6
Greetings Gents,
John is correct, regarding some of the Scots fur traders and early explorers "taking" native Indian wives. The Metis, as one example, contained a number of Camerons, with one tribe even having a Cameron chief!
As for the Camerons of African descent, I have a good deal of information. John is correct once again, that a number of Cameron men were banished to the Caribbean/West Indies and surely married native women. In addition to this, there was also another large point of origin for many black Camerons.
I'm including portions from my ongoing book project regarding the Camerons in America:
Duncan Cameron, born on December 15, 1777, was the son of Anglican minister Reverend John Cameron (a recent immigrant from Scotland) and Anne Owen Nash, the daughter of Colonel Thomas Nash. The family’s primary residence was Lunenberg, Virginia.
After studying law under Paul Carrington, Duncan was licensed in 1797 and relocated to North Carolina, where he had settled in Hillsborough by 1799. His primary investments were “land and slaves.” Beginning in 1802 Duncan was a trustee of the University of North Carolina, a position that he would hold for the next fifty-one years. In 1807 Duncan formed a partnership with his father-in-law Richard Bennehan, and brother-in-law Thomas Bennehan, which combined the Cameron and Bennehan plantations, slaves, stores, flour mills and saw mills into one “powerful and profitable enterprise.” His plantation, “Fairntosh” (named after his father's birthplace in Scotland, Farintosh – a parish near the Black Isle, north of the city of Inverness), would become a large composite of 4 plantations: Snow Hill, Brick House, Stagville and Fairntosh, and in time would span more than 30,000 acres across four North Carolina counties. The Cameron family would also own and operate cotton plantations in Green County, Alabama and Tunica County, Mississippi. Duncan's son Paul later took over operations at the plantations.
According to some records I once viewed, at the time of emancipation there were 1,900 slaves at Farintosh. It might be assumed that a good many of them assumed the Cameron surname, since that was customary.
It should be noted that thousands of former Fairntosh slaves had their names, and in many instances their births and deaths, recorded within the Cameron family’s records. These documents (entitled the “Cameron Family Papers”) are now a part of the Southern Historical Collection, located in the Manuscript Department of the Library of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. They are a source of valuable genealogical information to African-Americans either bearing the Cameron surname or descended from those who did.
Interesting question - glad that we had some answers!!
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JCameron
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lover of ales
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Post by JCameron on Apr 21, 2004 18:54:32 GMT -6
That's so very interesting. Thanks for the info! Speaking of prominent North Carolina Camerons . . . check out Evan Dhu Cameron
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Alans
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Post by Alans on Apr 28, 2004 3:23:52 GMT -6
Have a look at the phonebook for Kingston Jamaica. Many of these people are not descended from people who took a plantation owners name as in the USA. They are the descendents of transported rebels who married former slaves or who fathered "natural" children with slaves while working as indentured overseers. A good example is how common the name Campbell is in the West Indies. Despite all the propaganda against Campbells, the second most common surname amongst Jacobite prisoners of the '45 was Campbell. Mac or Mc Donald would probably be very common as well. They are all part of my clan "A man's a man for all that...."
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JCameron
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lover of ales
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Post by JCameron on Apr 28, 2004 6:56:26 GMT -6
Thanks for your additional info . . . this topic is very compelling!
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Post by ChrisDoak on Apr 28, 2004 10:40:36 GMT -6
It has always been a matter of shame and embarrasment to me,that so many Scots were actively engaged in profitting from the slave trade throughout the United States,and throughout the Caribbean as well.That many Camerons were involved as well,adds to the disappointment.
I have always had an uneasy feeling over the knowledge that Sir Ewan Cameron of Lochiel purchased land in Jamaica,and subsequently passed on it's ownership to his grandson John(the future John Cameron of Fassifern) in 1713.John Cameron is known to have visited the Island in 1721/23,and whilst his activities there are unknown to us,it is possible that they went some way towards establishing the large fortune he was able to accumulate throughout his life.He established strong trading links between the West Indies and Scotland,and was co-owner of the ship "Charming Molly",which carried his brother Ewan and 65 'servants'(his term),from Fort William in Lochaber,to Jamaica in 1734.
I believe that historical papers for this period are thin on the ground in Jamaica,and there seems to be no extant papers in the usual public sources in Scotland,identifying their final destination.But if many Camerons from Lochaber formed this settlement in 1734,there were other Camerons settling on the Island too:the Rev.Auley Cameron ,from Glasgow,took up a post in 1742 as Rector to the Parish of St.Mary,and others were to arrive in Jamaica on a voluntary ,and non-voluntary basis,over the coming decades.
A quick search on the Internet threw up a Website listing the Landowners in the Parish of St.Elizabeth in the south of the Island,during the early 19th century.Preceeding an astonishingly large number of Campbell names,were these two gentlemen:
1821:Donald CAMERON.Property - Donegal. -95 slaves and 382 stock.(Cameron,who was recently deceased,was an Assistant Judge and Magistrate).
1825:Donald CAMERON.Property - Carisbrook. -75 slaves and 108 stock.
Just to diversify slightly,and hopefully not trivialise the serious nature of this thread,there are a number of Camerons today who are descended from families in Lochaber called "Black Camerons".
These Camerons were a sub-set of the McGillonie Cameron tribe,and were living in the middle of the 18th century at Inverroy,Letterfinlay.Some of them,by this time,were known by the surname of Black,rather than Cameron.How did they acquire their name?I'm not too sure - possibly through a genetic strain of black hair,but that seems to have been common throughout the other Cameron tribes as well.Certainly,one rogue living in Inverroy in the 1770s was known as "Donald Dow Black "- black-haired Donald Black!
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Post by SherbrookeJacobite on Apr 28, 2004 14:04:37 GMT -6
The Campbell's were not all bad. There was a contingent from Glen Lyon out in support of the true King in both the '15 and '45 risings. (trying to attone for the treachery in Glen Coe perhaps!) Although the leaders of that branch of the clan were by no means united on that front. I think it was young Archie Campbell who led them out in the '45, while his brother was overseas with the Black Watch.
There were also Campbells in Brae Lochaber, allies of the Keppoch MacDonalds/MacDonnells who were supporters of the Stuarts.
I know I'm being picky, but our ancestors who supported the rightful heirs to the throne of Scotland and Great Britain were not the rebels.
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Post by marslaidh on Apr 29, 2004 14:49:20 GMT -6
Many, many years ago, my father was in a yellow cab in New York City, when he noticed that the driver's license (always on display) showed his name was Alexander Cameron -- my father's own name. Yes, the driver was a "black" Cameron.
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Post by gaelgal on Jul 1, 2004 17:42:47 GMT -6
This was extremely interesting reading! Thanks, everyone! I had heard the term "Black Camerons" and "Black Irish" for a long time. Assumed that the Black Irish were those Irish with black hair... Black Camerons I assumed had something to do with Taillear Dubh... hmm. Black of hair or of skin, the inside is what matters most and we are all kin by the nature of our souls, don't you think? It knows no color. I will try to remember to come back and read some more on this as it has posts. Thanks for the history lessons!
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Post by ianjonefan on Mar 16, 2008 12:58:25 GMT -6
I could be wrong, but here's another possibility for Black Camerons. came from the time between the Spainiish Armada, and the 1715 rebellion there could have been Spainish survivors of both conflicts that could have intermarried with some Camerons, and because of there darker skin they were known as Black Scottish. Such as in the case of some survivors of the Spainish Armada intermarring into Irish families. (Think Black Irish) as a example So some Camerons might have some Spainish ancestry because of this connection. I think it would be interesting to read about any Cameron that was able to trace their ancestry to these Black Scottish, both Spainish, and slave. ianjonefan(Jon)
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shan
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Post by shan on Apr 4, 2008 14:19:04 GMT -6
Hi Jon and everyone else. I think this is a fascinating discussion. But, Jon, I think it unlikely that Highlanders, or Scots in general, would have referred to those of Spanish descent as Black Scottish. I know that in the 16th century, when a ship ran aground near Orkney, a number of survivors were accepted by the locals on Papa Westray. They also married into the local community. They, and their descendents, became known as the Dons. And I know that their descendents are also referred to as the Papa Westray Spaniards even today. Also, there are features in the landscape around Glenshiel, most notably Sgurr nan Spainteach – the peak of the Spaniards, that specifically refers to the Spanish. You should also remember that the Picts were darker in hair and complexion than the Celts and Norse and a great many Highlanders continue to have those traits. Although I also have Norse ancestry, my hair, and that of the rest of my family, is either very dark brown or black. The Spanish and any descendents would not have stood out as much as you may think. I hope this doesn't sound too negative.
Shan
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Post by ianjonefan on Apr 4, 2008 15:32:52 GMT -6
Shan, No offence taken. I was just going by some obscure article I thought I rembered reading some many years ago. Like I said in my opening statement I could be wrong thanks for clearing any misconsecptions I've had. Have a nice :TARTAN DAY: As you probably noticed , I've been doing alot of postings recently. When you have the time, could you do me me a favor? Go to my previous postings, and let me know what you think of them. There's no hurry. I welcome any feed back of any kind whether positive, or negitive. If it wasn't for negitive feed back on some of my subjects, I wouldn't have known I was making mistakes. So far most of my mistakes have been minor. Nobody's perfect right? By the way doesn't everytime you run into a know-it-all you want to run screaming into the next room?The ones thatespecaily bugs me are the ones that breaks into your conservation with someone else, starts opening up his /her mouth and starts to blow hot air that doesn't cover the suject at hand. :HEY!!!: That could be another subject for discusssion. Jon P.S. Cead Mile Failte
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shan
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Post by shan on Apr 4, 2008 16:22:43 GMT -6
Hi Jon
I have actually read a lot of your postings. I agreed with what you said about what it means to be a celt and I liked your poem Son of the Hound. I can't wait to hear how it will sound set to music. I will send a message though if that is okay rather than disrupt the flow of this thread. My last post was only giving my opinion based on the facts that I know of, so your theory could well be right. It was just that having lived in the Highlands for most of my life, I can honestly say that I have never heard the term "Balck Scottish"applied that way and have only heard it in connection to descendents of Scots who had African/Carribean spouses.
Anyway it is getting late... Bye for now Shan
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Post by ianjonefan on Apr 15, 2008 15:25:53 GMT -6
When I posted my theory of the term Black Scottish, I was going by what I remembered from reading in a obscure book on Scottish History that covered the period of the 1715 Scottish Rebellion. I would like to know if anyone remembers reading anything similuar. Jon
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2006
Lochaber Ghillie
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Post by 2006 on Oct 4, 2008 15:54:30 GMT -6
I agree with Jon. I have also read about Black Dhub, but cannot quote the source right now. It certainly had nothing to do with the Carribean or black slaves. It did have something to do with the origin of the Camerons. Thank you to all for the stimulation and input. Delphine Cameron Large Canada
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