Camerons McGregors and Campbells

[richardcameron]

The 'official Cameron clan histories' are silent on the subject but from original documents in the NAS it does seem that part of the 'Clan' were Argyll's and GlenOrchy's agents in exterminating the McGregors in Rannoch etc.
Did the bounties on offer for the slaughter of McGregors finance the eastward settlement of Lochaber people?
Has anyone in this forum studied the record and have they formed a view on the Cameron influx to Rannoch,Breadalbane and Strathtay around 1600 or is this too difficult a subject for 'clan' romanticists to cope with?

[SherbrookeJacobite]

I would be very interested in what original documents in the Scottish National Archives you are referring to. I was aware that Camerons did take place in a battle against Clan Gregor, the Battle of Bentoik, in which sixty MacGregors fought against about two hundred Camerons, MacNabs, and MacDonalds, under Robert Campbell of Glenorchy.
This unfortunate, and unpopular (among contemporary Cameron Clansmen) action came about as a result of Argyll pressing his case as he had discovered that he held the Charter to the Cameron lands, acquired in 1522, and the claim was bolstered by the purchase of Lochielside from Hector MacLean of Lochbuie for 4,100 merks. He had acquired the estate after Lochiel's estates had been forfeited by the government - and gifted to Sir Alexander Hay, who in turn sold them to Lochbuie.
Prior to this the Cameron lands had been under the superiority of Huntly, Argyll's great Catholic rival. Huntly, in his attempt to retain control over his former Lochaber territory, tried to divide and create dissension among Lochiel's followers. It was for this reason - in an attempt to curry favour with the Crown, and with Argyll, Lochiel agreed, albeit half-heartedly, to assist Argyll in his dastardly plan to exterminate Clan Gregor. This assistance was short lived, and as I stated, very unpopular with the Clan. It is reported that Lochiel received 1000 pounds as compensation for this assiatance. It was Lochiel's unfortunate position between the House of Campbell and House of Gordon that led him to this.

The Camerons had good reason to dislike and mistrust Campbells during this period of time, particularly those of Glenorchy. Young Allan Cameron of Lochiel, visiting his future bride, a Stewart of Appin, in the late 1500's, found himslef in the midst of a quarrel involving a few of his Clansmen, and some MacDougall's and Campbells. A Cameron lad killed Archibald Campbell, son of Glenorchy - and Allan had to fight his way out, and made his escape, although wounded.

Our Clan has a long tradition of enmity and distrust of Clan Campbell, and a similar friendship with the MacGregors, so I would put forward that this unfortunate incident, was an isolated one. The Camerons, although never proscribed in the same manner as the MacGregors, faced similar persecution over the years, largely at the hands of Argyll.

As far as our migration to Rannoch, the MacDonalds, MacGregors and Menzies occupied the lands North of the Loch. The Camerons, MacDougalls and Robertsons occupied the lands on the south side of the Loch. There wasn't even a road connecting the two sides of the moor, so I don't think it is likely that we supplanted MacGregors there.

I find your last comment curious. Clan 'historians' don't seem to have any difficulty 'coping' with other difficult chapters in our Clan's often bloody history. Much of our Clan territory was acquired and held at the point of a sword. I don't know why they would have any problem with our migration into those particular areas.

Slainte,

John

[richardcameron]

I think you will find that Camerons participated in the persecution of McGregors over quite an extended period.
A useful reference is the Breadalbane Muniments NAS GD112 ie the papers of Campbell of GlenOrchy later Breadalbane-for example see GD112/17/1/2
His letters covering the 1560-80's are on the Edinburgh Divinty School web site and several relate to Cameron 'war parties' in the area..
A D Cunningham in his History of Rannoch relates how GlenOrchy seeded the Menzies lands in North Rannoch in the 1570's with Camerons to displace McGregors.
Somewhat later the RPC Vol IX in 1612 lists Clan Members refusing to obey Lochiel and join the persecution.
It is not appropriate to put today's values on the actions of our forebears.All that should be done is to understand the contemporary motivations in so far as we can without being judgemental.If Lochiel to survive had to appease Argyll at various times-so be it.
My interest is that I can find find a migration of Camerons eastwards in to Strathtay and southwards through Moulin,Logierait and Dowally towards Dunkeld from 1600 onwards.Some local people already there also took the name in parallel with this.I am trying to ascertain why.

[SherbrookeJacobite]

Hi Richard,
Sorry for the delay in responding. I had a very busy week. I really appreciate the link to the papers of Glenorchy/Breadalbane. I only have had time to take a quick glance at them, and would like to take some time to read through them, before offering any opinion. They are slow reading, as my 16th century Scots is not great .
I would also like to have a look at Cunningham's book.

As to the Cameron migration - are you sure that some locals adopted the surname, or could they have acquired it through marriage?

[Alans]

I also think that the Camerons "assisted" Argyll to reduce the MacLeans on Mull into submission in the late C17th but of course all that skulduggery was expiated by a wholehearted effort at Killekrankie. Black Ewen often sailed close to the wind but his heart was in the right place-he looked after his own very well indeed even if he supped with the devil at times.
Quite apart from their persecution by the Argyll Campbells and the Crown, the MacGregors had very few friends even before they were proscribed.
The highlanders of that time probably saw MacGregor hunting as a perfectly legitimate way of earning money. The king had outlawed them, rewards were available etc. etc.
There's no particular guilt to be felt over this matter. Helping to cook the Maclean goose might well be another matter.