Culloden - Sponsor a Stone.

[ChrisDoak]

The National Trust for Scotland are presently carrying out major reconstruction at the site of the Battle of Culloden,in order to restore it to the condition and appearance at the time of the battle in 1746.

In addition,they are building a new Visitor Centre,and Camerons (and others) may be interested to know that they have the opportunity to sponsor "a stone" at the battlefield,to help raise the neccesary £1.95m($3.6m) to implement the works.

The approach walk to the new Visitor Centre is to be lined with engraved Caithness stones.For those who wish to sponsor a stone,there will be the knowledge that the stones will form a strong bond with the battlefield site,and be a lasting reminder of those who have contributed towards this symbolic place.

There are 3 choices of size available for the engraving of the name of a friend,family member,organisation etc:

1.200mm x 100mm.(8 x 4 inches),with 28 engraved letters in total.£75($135).
2.200mm x 200mm.(8 x 8 inches),with 56 engraved letters in total.£140($250).
3.400mm x 400mm.(16 x 16 inches),with a Culloden logo in English or Gaelic,and 42 engraved letters in total.£495($890).

Seems to me like a great opportunity,and one not to be missed!

For fuller information on the project,check out the website www.culloden.org.uk.

[Cameronian]

Chris, is Clan Cameron Scotland intending to dedicate a stone to the Lochiel regiment that fought on that day, if so what size is intended?

Would it be appropriate for the Clan world-wide to sponsor a stone?
Would it be more appropriate for us to take a name from the Muster Roll of those who fought under Lochiel and dedicate a stone (that should take up the entire allocated area)

I ask these questions because of the design and intended historical slant of the new Information Centre, re their intention to stress interest in ‘other than Jacobite’ forces who participated on that day.

Sadly in all the money allocated to the ‘new’ Culloden, purchasing the land across the road which separates the Jacobite forces (the Macdonalds) from their comrades in the present Culloden battlefield was not considered, so the field hardly represents all that fell on that day. With encroachment of housing development in the area, this was possibly the last opportunity to have brought up the remaining land and made it truly representative of all of those who fought on that day.

The one point that appears to have been overlooked is that this is a burial ground as well as a battlefield, yet The National Trusts’s focus appears to have been only on the ‘theme park’

“The National Trust for Scotland is delighted that the Scottish Executive has been able to support its proposal to upgrade the visitor centre at Culloden with a contribution of £3.75 million. Culloden Battlefield is one of Scotland’s most significant historic sites, which has been in the care of The National Trust for Scotland since 1937. The current visitor centre was upgraded in 1984 and with over 200,000 visitors each year is now in need of modernisation in order to meet the expectations of today’s discerning, well-travelled visitors.

This additional funding has provided a significant boost towards the funds needed to create a new visitor centre, to be opened in 2007, as part of Scotland’s Year of Highland Culture celebrations. The Trust hopes to raise a further £3-4 million pounds with the help of the European Regional Development Fund and through its own fund-raising efforts”.

[ChrisDoak]

Hi Val,

A lot of us over here have big reservations about the design,content,and layout of the interior of the proposed Visitor Centre - rather than a "modernisation in order to meet the expectations of today's discerning,well-travelled visitor",it seems to be aimed more at entertaining bored teenagers.

Certainly the fact that the site is also the last burial spot for the ancestors of many of us,was strongly put by one of our Member to the Trust representative that lectured us recently,though the only response we got was the fact that the inscribed lettering on the gravestones is going to be picked out with white paint!

Regarding the stone-sponsoring scheme,there are no plans as yet for the Association in Scotland to have a stone inscribed (I am not too sure how many of us know about it as yet - I was only aware of it ten days ago,when I picked up a leaflet).I think it would be a nice act to name a stone after a specific person who died at the battle,or served under Lochiel,but as we don't know the names of the majority of the fallen,it seems a shame to miss the unknown others out.I like the idea of the various Associations round the world sponsoring an individual stone,but also like the idea of individual persons dedicating one themselves.I suspect that most of the stones on the approach walk to the Visitor Centre will have inscriptions of the nature of "Granny and Grandpa Cameron,Erinsborough"rather than of any historical significence.,and I don't think there is anything wrong with that.What I wouldn't like to see,is any with an inscription like "Billy's Bar and Diner,Inverness",or "McDonalds"under a golden arch.

The Trust Representative told us that they had recently bought an adjoining plot of land from a neighbouring Farmer,so I suppose they are making some sort of effort.They are also actively making representations against any of the encroaching housing developments.Interestingly enough,he informed us too,that they had been doing considerable research into the positions of the Clans prior to the battle starting,and had come to the conclusion that the present Clan Markers were a good 110 metres out - something which would be remedied under the improvements.Whether that means that the MacDonalds will now rejoin us on the correct side of the road,I am not too sure.

Oh aye,he also told us that next year they intend to have some sort of a Ceremony,where Clans (and others) from both sides of the conflict will be invited to come together,and put all their past disagreements aside.I am not so confident that that will result in anything other than a big disorganised rammy,with much ill-feeling resurfacing!

Regards,Chris.

[Cameronian]

The comments that I am about to express are my own alone, those of a Cameron descending from ancestors who fought on that day on Drumossie Moor, and not necessarily those of CCNSW.

I have walked this battlefield in summer rain, and I have walked it in January with snow up to my knees, it is a very emotive place. I have not, as yet, been to Gallipoli where the ANZAC forces (having been landed north of the correct beach) faced entrenched Turkish forces, with an estimate that of the 16,000 ANZAC troops landed on the first day, over 2000 became casualties…..

One a Cameron, Lieutenant William Cameron of the 9th Australian Light Horse made this note in his Diary
“Ere another entry is made in this book we will have passed through a very trying time. We are leaving almost everything behind; whether we see it again or not will be a matter of luck. And now we go forward in the full consciousness of a 'duty clear before us', and ... we can only say 'Thy will be done'. God grant comfort to those in anxiety and sorrow and give our leaders wisdom."

The graves and Memorials that are now part of Gallipoli Cove are many, in one alone, LONE PINE CEMETERY (1167 burials) and LONE PINE MEMORIAL (4930 names). This memorial names 4221 Australian and 709 New Zealand soldiers who have no known grave.

Surely it was not too much to have asked that those Highlanders who died on that day on Drumossie Moor could have expected to have been treated no less. They too had seen a 'duty clear before us'

From the unearthing of bodies during road construction in 1838, to the dumping of these remains down an open quarry, to the later planting of a conifer plantation, and the present separation of Clan Donald by the roadway, the contempt that Culloden has received must be recognised and redressed.

As Camerons we have a 'duty clear before us', to preserve and bring dignity to this battlefield, creating a Tourist attraction does not fulfill our duty to this burial ground

[mrcameron]

Were there really Macdonalds participating in the Battle of Culloden? I do not recall their being mentioned as having engaged the Hanoverian forces.

[Cameronian]

Well, yes, we can discuss this if you like.

There were four Clan Donald Jacobite regiments represented at Culloden, Clanranald, Glencoe, Keppoch and Glengarry.

Clanranald’s forces formed part of the left wing of the front line where they suffered heavy casualties before and during the advance. Young Clanranald being severely wounded.

The Chief, Alexander MacDonald of Glencoe’s men after suffering severe losses in the capture of Fort August and the siege of Fort William were greatly reduced in number and were on the left wing with Keppoch’s Regiment.

The Glengarry battalion at Culloden was only 500 strong, MacDonell of Barrisdale’s battalion was away in the North and failed to return in time, however the Glengarry Macdonald’s were also on the left and in the Front Line suffering severe losses, Scotus, his Lieutenant, Ensign, Sergeant, Corporal and eighteen privates being killed outright.

Although the Keppoch regiment numbered 300 when they rallied at Glenfinnan by Culloden it’s ranks had been reduced through constant campaigning to 200 men, these took their place with the Glengarry and Clanranald men on the left of the Front Line their Chief Alexander MacDonell of Keppoch was killed along with his brother Donald.

[SherbrookeJacobite]

Re: Clan Donald's Participation at Culloden

I can't add much to Val's excellent explanation - except to say that there seems to be a common misconception that Clan Donald, angered at having been moved from their traditional place at the right of the line, didn't fight, or at best fought half-heartedly at Culloden (A myth carried forth in some traditional songs like "Culloden's Harvest"). This is untrue, and a disservice to one of the proudest and most honoured of Highland Clans.

It is true that Clan Donald were upset at their place in the battle line. The right side of the line had been theirs, it is said, since the Battle of Bannockburn. They were moved to the left side, as Lord George Murray's Atholmen, and to their left, the Camerons, were on the right. It is also true that Clan Donald's forces were inneffective at Culloden (as were most of the Jacobite forces!). The reason though was certainly not cowardice, or a refusal to fight. The confusion that enveloped the Jacobite forces caused particular havoc with the left and center of the lines. The order to charge, which either came late, or wasn't heard - caused the right side - which was closer to the English lines (and to the Prince) - to charge first. The left side (including the MacDonalds), due to the slope of the terrain, veered to the right as they charged, getting tangled up with the center of the line. Those on the right side, while charging, were surprised by Campbells - who had snuck up along a rock wall on the right side of the battlefield. This caused them to veer left - and we are left with a melee in the middle of the field, which caused the legendary Highland charge (in the middle and left of the Jacobite line) to come to a halt. While all this was happening the English were continuing to fire grapeshot and musket fire at the Jacobite forces, causing awful casualties.

The Atholmen (including Lord Murray) and Camerons actually reached the English lines, and inflicted the most casualties among the Butcher's troops. It is said that Cumberland directed his troops to fire at his own lines, where they had been breached.

Clan Donald - as Val said, suffered heavy losses, and do not deserve to be spoken of with anything but the highest regard. They served their King and their country well and honourably, not only on that April 16th, but during the entire campaign

Bi h-eibhneas gan Chlainn Domhnaill!

Slainte,

John

[Cameronian]

The concern for the development of Culloden is shared by other descendants of these Jacobite clan. One of which is Clan Donald USA, they too, are requesting answers to questions posed to The National Trust of Scotland in areas where answers have not been forthcoming. In response to the enquire as to where the bodies uncovered in the 1835 road development were re-interred, the response from the NTS has been.

“Regarding your query on the road - In 1835 a road was constructed right across Culloden Battlefield. Later this was thought to be insensitive (and rightly so), as it went over and probably through the clan graves. There is an account stating that the remains that were disturbed when the road was built had been re-interred” However requests to The National Trust of Scotland asking just where this ‘account’ states that the remains of the dead had been re-interred have been ignored……. Local history has it that they were tipped into a near open Quarry site.

Another question asked by Clan Donald USA, as yet unanswered “ Are you aware of the location of the "re-interment" site for the Glengarry and Keppoch Mac Donalds from across the road? .

Unless the potential housing encroachments and that road are eliminated as threats to the sanctity and peace of this place of reverence, it will fall short of its real potential and irreparable damage will result

Culloden in it’s past and future form has been a matter of discussion with a good number of folk resident in Scotland as well as outwith its borders, there is considerable concern that a theme park image would be created that would detract from the solemnity of this place, whose history's aftermath may have done more to change the face of modern Scotland and mould the shape of nations such as the USA, Australia, New Zealand and Canada, than one might imagine. Although we all wish The National Trust well in the progress of this very important endeavour on behalf of our shared heritage. We hope that they will make the right, but difficult decisions to balance heritage with business at this most evocative of sites. An entire culture was changed that day, and many of us have fought to preserve it ever since.

[gaelgal]

This has been a most interesting and provocative post. Thank you for sharing all of this information! What can we do on this side of the Big Pond to help (if anything)?

[gaelgal]

I have looked at the link Chris posted, and see that there is a lot of information there! Hmm... newsletter possibly?

[SherbrookeJacobite]

Thanks very much Val, and Chris for posting the information. I share the concerns that have been raised. I too have walked the battlefield, and it is a very moving experience. I am pleased that the National Trust considers it important enough to do something with - but also do not want it turned into some kind of politically correct tourist attraction. There is no way to gloss over what happened there. It is a graveyard as well as a battlefield, and those buried there deserve the respect and solemnity that befit a burial ground.

I know from experience that current residents of Scotland get their backs up very quickly at what they perceive as "foreign" intrusions into their Country. I have had many 'discussions' with Scots - who have said things like 'Why don't you celebrate your own country's history and culture, instead of trying to steal ours?". It is OUR history and culture - those things being tied to people, not land. It is our kin who are buried there, they are our songs and stories. I think we have every right to have a say in what is done to the burial place of our families.

I am pleased that Clan Donald is speaking up. I think that Clan Cameron should also express its concerns. It is difficult to complain later, if we have had an opportunity prior to it being done, and have said nothing.

[glow=red,2,300]"Generations that know us not and that we know not of, heart-drawn to see where and by whom great things suffered and done for them, shall come to this deathless field, to ponder and dream" [/glow]U.S. Union General Joshua L. Chamberlain (Speaking of a U.S. Civil War battlefield)

[SherbrookeJacobite]

Hi GaelGal!

[Cameronian]

A quick comment on John’s post re the reaction in Scotland to comments from those outwith Scotland.

Sadly it is very true that any comment or suggestion of help is met with a closing off of the subject, a shutting of the door, a serve of bravado, basically translated as ‘back off, we do not need any help’.

I originally thought this stemmed from a lack of understanding of how many millions, world-wide, descend from those Highlanders who were encouraged/forced to ‘go pioneer’ a colony for the Crown, but I now realise that this attitude seems to indicate a deeper fear in the incumbent Scot that our participation back in our ancestor’s homeland will in some way change it, and it is this thought that brings discomfort to them, and possibly other deeper emotions that we need not go into on this list.

Because of this we must look to Clan Cameron Scotland to lead us in these enquires, for unless there is guidance from those representing these Jacobite Clan in Scotland, the ear of those in The National Trust of Scotland will not be listening to any suggestions put forward by those outwith their shores.

We do not need a ‘politically correct’ Culloden. We do not need a ‘theme park’ Culloden, and we certainly do not need a larger Book/ Souvenir / Kitsch Retail outlet selling countless published accounts relating what happened on April 16 1746 with no regard for the previous two hundred years of suppression in the Highlands .

All I would ask of The Culloden Trust is that they provide:

1. Preservation of the area, the total area.

2. The safe and permanent interment of the remains buried there

3. Permanent markers indicating the lines of Jacobite Clan standing in opposition to Cumberland’s forces (before the Battle)

4. Markers indicating where the Crown forces stood in opposition to the Jacobites

5. A Bronze Memorial listing all those known (from the Jacobite Muster lists) to have been present on that field.

6. A Memorial carrying the names of any Crown Regiments wishing their names to be associated with that day

This will give clear indication of the numerical disparity between the two forces without any need for political statement, nor a major resurge in works from reconstructionist historians validating their 'take' on the history of that day.

[Cameronian]

The subject of Culloden has been left without comment since my return from Inverness late June..... having then viewed the moor, the work of the earth moving equipment, the upturned earth, the concrete path constructed through the rock wall near the 'well of the dead' which had (until now) been undisturbed since that time.

Listening to those of Clan Donald who having attended the Cairn Commemorative Service on April 16 then needing to walk the newly created pathway back through the Hanoverian lines to arrive at the Clan Donald stone, I have to question the just how much sensitivity has been visited upon this project.

I would like to request we all listen to the program produced by BBC Scotland, listen to the comments coming from those involved in the project ie "the difficulty in identifying the dead who had lain there for three ? days, striped of clothing (therefore identity) and later buried in a mass graves not necessarily in Clan graves" their amazement in the small number of weapons, swords, etc found on the moor after the battle, so many less than the number of the Jacobite forces. And I must ask myself would those who had stripped these fallen of their clothes left swords and muskets lying with the bodies?

Those Reconstructionist Historians who hope to put a different spin on the 16th of April 1746 and the aftermath that followed, may find that those in the Diaspora whose migrating ancestors were only a little more than a generation removed from this event, brought with them from the Highlands the ancestral memory of kin killed on that day, of family who were first hunted, hounded then finally cleared away by the ship-load.

Scotland 2007 does not own the history of Culloden we also share this.
Go to the BBC Radio 4 website and click on Culloden - A New Battle. www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/progs/radioplayer_holding.shtmlwell

[shan]

Hello again

Unfortunately that programme can no longer be accessed through that link. I would like to hear this programme before commenting further as I don't know who was responsible for the above quote, so if anyone has managed to save a copy of the audio file, I would be very appreciative if you could send it to me.

As to the pathways, they weren't nearly completed at the time of the commemorative ceremony - I walked them too that day and many of the paths were just not accessible. The project is running way behind schedule and I plan to reserve judgement until I see it all in place. I know the research carried out on the battlefield is sound, the work being carried out by someone who is passionate about Culloden and the preservation of the battlefield. The bigger concern should not be the academics revising history but how the National Trust presents this information.

It is such an emotive and personal subject for many people. This is why I am researching the cultural associations of battlefields and why I am seeking your or your families' stories, experiences, opinions. If anyone out there feels strongly about Culloden, or any other battlefield, I would like to hear from you.

[Cameronian]

Sorry Shan, It appears that BBC Radio 4 has removed the link,perhaps you could request a copy of the program.

As per you comment, in the end it is the way the National Trust presents this information.