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Post by jjeonchapman on Sept 2, 2009 12:34:26 GMT -6
Dear Chris,
What a wealth of information! It certainly goes a very long way towards fleshing out the names on the genealogical chart and rendering them more human. The Camerons of Kinlochleven appear to be a rather strong-minded family. Was this level of litigiousness the norm at the time?
It is interesting that your notes reveal that there was another child from Angus Cameron 4th of Kinlochleven's first marriage, quite possible that that child had been named Alexander and plausible that the child of the second marriage might be named after the deceased child. They seemed to have a preference for names beginning with "A": Angus, Archibald, Alexander, Anne, with "John" being a close second.
I went to the library yesterday to find works by Lord Charles Neaves, related by marriage to Marjory MacBean, and was impressed by the great breadth of his knowledge and variety of his abilities. Unfortunately, most of his works are archival, stored in Scotland and not available to the general public. Some of his poems have recently been reprinted, however, and I'll try to find the book.
I look forward to hearing more about the legal matters of the Kinlochlevens.
Judy
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Post by jjeonchapman on Sept 3, 2009 12:08:16 GMT -6
Hello Chris,
Yesterday I came across two references to John Cameron of Kinlochleven that you may be familiar with.
In a letter that John Cameron of Kinlochleven wrote to the Duke of Gordon in May 1778 (found in Stuart Reid's "18th Century Highlanders"): "If your Grace will give me the farm of Kilmanivag and Brackletter for five years, I will furnish your Grace with two handsome men tomorrow. I would be glad to give my assistance to your Grace without those terms, but, as it is not in my power to accommodate to friends of those who go, I am obliged to ask these as I have no land of my own." Again, the Cameron of Kinlochleven lack of resources is underlined.
John MacDonald of Dalchosnie wrote that on the 15th of August, Cameron of Kinlochleven along with the heads of several other Cameron families "came from Lochiel's country and entered Rannoch with a party of their servants and followers to the numbr of 24, and went from house to house on both sides of Loch Rannoch, the north side belonging to Sire Robert Manzies, and the south side to Struan Robertson, and intimated to all the Camerons, which are pretty numerous both sides of the said loch, that if they do not forthwith go along with them, they would that instant proceed to burn all their houses ...Whereupon they carried off the Rannoch men about 100 mostly of the name Cameron." I can see why you said that John Cameron of Kinlochleven was a man to be feared.
I assume that the above reference had to do with the events of 1745. It is understandable that John's sister would later feel the need to at least publically distance herself from him.
Judy
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Post by jjeonchapman on Sept 4, 2009 15:08:28 GMT -6
Hello Chris,
I think I may have stumbled across references to Archibald Cameron's father, Angus, son of Angus Cameron 6th of Kinlochleven. Up to yesterday I had never found any promising leads.
Scanning the journal of Sir James Robertson, 1845-1847, I found references not only to Lord Charles Neaves, which wouldn't be surprising, but also to Angus Cameron, whom he refers to as the Sheriff's Clerk Depute of Tobermory. In the journal, Robertson mentions the visits of Angus, bringing paper and envelopes, and documents, often in the company of a Mr. Nisbett. On Saturday, 22 March 1845 he writes "A. Cameron's marriage" without mentioning if he attended and without mentioning the name of the bride. No honey-moon for Angus as he appears bringing paper and envelopes the following week.
Then there is a curious entry on 27 May 1845 that reads: "Cameron is disfigured since I last saw him by a deep scar on the right cheek and a hanging of the under eyelid." No mention again of this disfigurement. Later entries mention Angus witnessing a will, helping with various cases. He received a letter from Angus Cameron (working in Tobermory) with arbiter's notes, and Robertson writes Angus regarding processes for submission. In July 1845 he mentions the Camerons in connection to a "bastard case." In April 1846 he mentions Alexander Cameron and Capt. Cameron regarding a legal matter, and on Nov. 1846 he receives a letter from Donald Cameron requesting his assistance in acquiring a position with the Coast Guard. Robertson doesn't help him. On Sept. 11, 1847 he mentions Lady Kinloch who was a daughter of the Balanchine. He writes: "Her father was at Culloden, but having joined suddenly, and returned home quietly and suddenly, he was not forfeited..." 7 Dec. 1847 he mentions a Mr. Burdon, involved, apparently, in some sort of legal action concerning Garson, a retired schoolmaster. I wonder if this is the Mr. Burdon who is purported to have accompanied Archibald to America.
Several sources list Angus Cameron as the Depute Sheriff's Clerk in Tobermory, and one sources also lists him in that position plus adds that he was also Justice of the Peace Clerk. That source also lists his father Major Angus Cameron of Kinlochleven, as Deputy-Lieutenant for Argyllshire-Inverary. The 1841 Census of Scotland also finds Angus Cameron in Argyll, in Tobermory, his place of birth is listed as Argyll, date of birth about 1806, and his address is given as: Breast, and occupation listed as: Sheriff Clk. The household members might be relatives--no Archibald and nobody obviously looking like a wife: Mary McKinnon: 35 Betty McKinnon: 25 Mary MacDonald: 6 Angus Cameron: 35
I don't know if this Angus is Archibald's father or not, but he is living near his father, I believe, and practicing the profession mentioned in the papers I found. He had previously worked with his maternal uncle, Coll MacDonald who passed away in 1837. So he would have to have looked for another position.
Were Major Angus and Marjory in Argyll around 1806 when this Angus was born? Does this look like the right Angus Cameron to you?
Judy
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Post by ChrisDoak on Sept 5, 2009 4:17:01 GMT -6
Hi Judy, Your last post looks very interesting,but I shall need to analyse its contents before offering comment!However,the 1881 Census entry for Mary Cameron reveals that she was born circa 1806/7 at Glencoe,Argyle.I think we can assume that Marjory McBean was living there at the time,so quite feasible that Angus was born there as well,round about then. I was through at the National Archives of Scotland,in Edinburgh,yesterday,and I took the opportunity to check a few things out.First of all,the conundrum of who was "Alexander Cameron,barber's apprentice,Edinburgh"? I had another look at the Court Action taken by Angus Cameron of Kinlochleven against his step-grandmother Janet Cameron in 1778,and a trawl through the many papers it contained.Whilst many of them refer to John,the father of Angus,as "the eldest son" of Angus Cameron and his Campbell wife,others describe him as "the eldest lawful son".One paper described him as being "the only son to result from the marriage of Alexander Cameron and Isabell Campbell".I think now,that Alexander Cameron in Edinburgh was probobly an illegitimate son of Angus - most likely as the result of a drunken fling he had whilst visting the town.The occupation of barber is not one that I would imagine fearsome,rustic highlanders,like the Kinlochleven family,would choose for an offspring,and I suspect Alexander was Edinburgh born and bred (and maybe never even met his father). I checked out a number of the Court of Session Actions involving Major Angus,viz: -March 1812:John Morrison against Major Angus Cameron and Captain Patrick Campbell. -January 1818:Coll Macdonald WS against Major Angus Cameron and Alexander Macpherson. -March 1818:Major Angus Cameron against Dugald McLachlan and others. Nothing really worth detailing for you - just the usual run of the mill squabbles over unpaid bills,loans,and rents of buildings.Angus Cameron seems to have been a prolific Cautioner for a number of people in Lochaber,and when they were unable to pay their bills (or died),the debt passed on to him.The interesting thing is how Coll Macdonald seems to slide easily from Prosecuting him in one case,to Defending him in another - even in connecting Actions.The expression "conflict of interest" obviously didn't have the same meaning back then. Between waiting for documents to be brought up from the stores of the Archives,I browsed through their digitalized images of the Wills and Inventories (the ones you pay £5 for at http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk).When you don't have to pay for them,it is easy to check out the contents,as I did for approx.20 Cameron ones yesterday.Nothing to report there.However,I have always been a wee bit curious as to how Archibald Fraser Cameron got his first two names - Archibald is not a first name which has previously cropped up in the Kinlochleven family,so I thought that Fraser might have come from his mother. With only five minutes left before I had to dash for the train back to Glasgow,I had the hunch of searching the database for a Will of an "Archibald Fraser",circa 1820 - 50,to see if that threw up anything relevant.This one immediately caught the eye: -ARCHIBALD FRASER,Writer,died Edinburgh 21 February 1835.(Ref.SC70/1/52/45). With my time limited,I was only able to work my way through the contents quickly - which was difficult,as the handwriting isn't that easy to decipher - but I think that you should buy yourself a copy at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk,as I reckon you will find it very interesting! I shall get back to you,once I have had a good look at your last posting. Regards,Chris.
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Post by jjeonchapman on Sept 5, 2009 22:10:29 GMT -6
Dear Chris,
Your genealogical instincts are amazing to the point of being psychic! How incredible indeed that on a hunch you discovered a will that solves some mysteries and creates more but that seems to involve the whole extant Kinlochleven clan except for Anne Cameron. The cast of characters is impressive. Our Major Angus is still a captain at the time, his son Donald is mentioned several times, though I couldn't make out if his profession was listed or if it said "Kinloch" after his name. Mary Cameron is mentioned several times. Angus is prominently featured as he was residing at the time with Archibald Fraser, Writer, while presumably working for Coll MacDonald in Edinburgh (who is mentioned in the will along with his son, Donald, another witness). By the way, what does "writer" mean? Does it mean "paralegal clerk" or "lawyer"?
Archibald Fraser's servant, Christy Cameron, is mentioned as are baby clothes, so I imagine that the baby is my great-great-grandfather Archibald Fraser Cameron, and that his mother was said Christy Cameron. Clearly your hunch is correct that the name "Archibald Fraser" didn't come from the Kinlochleven side, and this Archibald Fraser is obviously the namesake of the baby. This raises several obvious questions. Could the baby have been the child of the deceased as the baby clothes are listed in his estate? Or is the father Angus as we have hereto presumed and Archibald a kindly and generous man who wanted to help a poor young woman with a child? If indeed it is Angus who is the father, then had he married Christy Cameron? Her last name is Cameron and both she and Angus were living in the Fraser houshold. But the will never refers to Christy as anything but his servant, with no "Mrs." ever mentioned. Plus, in Scotland Cameron is not a rare name.
His will was written interestingly by his brother, Alexander Fraser, who was to inherit the estate--another obvious example of the conflict of interest you mentioned that did not seem to disturb the lawyers of the time. In it a bill of 50 pounds is mentioned guaranteed, it seems to me, by Capt. Angus Cameron and his two sons Donald and Angus. The deceased asks that the sum be used to buy some sort of insurance (as you mentioned, the writing is very difficult to decipher), perhaps a Widows Fund I imagine is intended to protect the future of the child should he be orphaned. In addition he asks that life insurance be taken out on the life of Mary Cameron residing in Edinburgh.
Christy Cameron receives important presents from Archibald Fraser in the will: "To Christy Cameron, presently my servant, in consequence of the very great trouble and attention she paid to me during my long and protracted illness, all and sundry such parts of my bed and table linen which I will set apart for her and also the furniture of my new front room and bedroom; also a policy of insurance by the Scottish Widow's Fund " [the name of the insurance may not be correctly interpreted]. And later in the will he bequeaths to her 120 pounds.
To Angus Cameron, Writer, he leaves his watch, and something else that I can't make out, unfortunately, as I sense that it might help me understand the situation.
The writer of the will mentions that Mr. Fraser died at home in bed, and that Christy claims that before he died he gave her money to buy "mournings," by which I assume he meant black clothes suitable for mourning. The writer verifies that all the possessions of Mr. Fraser seem to be there, but wonders if Angus owed the deceased some rent. The writer also wonders if Angus Cameron and Christy Cameron had borrowed or taken money from the deceased: "Note: Angus Cameron Writer in Edinburgh boarded and lodged in the house of the defunct and the executor supposes that something is due to the deceased defunct on that account as well as for money borrowed by the said Angus Cameron or taken possession of by him or by Christy Cameron the defunct's servant, but of these the Executor has not hitherto been able to obtain any account and therefore cannot now specify them." I wonder why he supposed that they had borrowed or taken money...He who stood to inherit may have wished that his brother had been less generous to Christy and Angus.
The Robertson journal mentions Angus Cameron's wedding 22 March 1845. I wonder if it happened and to whom he got married. I haven't found any documents yet in that regard. I also wonder what caused Angus' scar and droopy lower eyelid shortly afterwards. A duel? A fight? or a disease?
Regardless of their marriage(s), I wonder what became of Angus and Christy Cameron, who raised Archibald, and why Archibald was sent to America with a Mr. Burdon, perhaps the Mr. Burdon mentioned in Mr. Robertson's journal. I wonder why Anne Cameron went to America and with whom she travelled.
Thank you for taking the trouble to look up that will and communicate it to me.
Also interesting to hear what you found out about Alexander the apprentice.
Like father like son really seems to apply to the Kinlochleven family...
Gratefully,
Judy
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Post by robertscam on Sept 8, 2009 3:59:05 GMT -6
I've been following this correspondence with much interest. You have certainly been doing some great research, Judy, adding to the wonderful papers that started things off. We all know how Chris just happens to find things in the Archives. He's done the same for me.
For some time I've had a tree on the Kinlochleven family in my Australian Cameron Genealogies, online at the Australian clan website. I've taken the liberty of using this correspondence to add detail to this tree, though as usual from necessity I can't continue far with North American descendants. I'm more than happy to make corrections as information continues to turn up.
You may be interested to hear that I have a little more information on Major Angus, gleaned from online pre-1900 British Newspaper extracts. Some months ago I found details of him marriage: Capt. Angus Cameron of Kinlochleven married 22 Sept. 1792, at Fornightly, Nairn, Marjory Macbean, dau. of Capt. Donald Macbean, 10th Foot (Ref. World (London, England), Wednesday, October 10, 1792). I was pleased to see that this matched your facts.
Now I've just found one of his death, also stating he died at Seymour, Upper Canada, but adding: He died "in the house of his son-in-law .... Ranney, Esq, whose death preceded his but ten days" (Ref. Caledonian Mercury, 23rd September 1847).
There's another name for you to think about - perhaps a husband of Elizabeth.
Keep up the good work
Bob Cameron
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Post by ChrisDoak on Sept 8, 2009 11:07:55 GMT -6
Hi Bob, Welcome back to the Board,
And Hi Judy.
Archibald Fraser's Will has proved to be an informative item,but as you say,gives us a few more queries,as well as answers.I think it is likely that Christy Cameron is the mother of Archibald,and that Angus is the father - I think if he wasn't the father,it is unlikely that Mary Cameron in Cockenzie would have left a large chunk of her estate to his son.Much admiration for Archibald Fraser - a very generous,and enlightened employer for the time (assuming that he knew that Chirsty was pregnant).Possibly too generous,as I reckon that his brother Alexander thought that Angus and Christy had taken advantage of him,and I interpret that Alexander had his suspicions that one or the other had actually been stealing money off him.
If the child had been born in 1835,this would fit in quite nicely with the information that you gave in your first Post,that Archibald had died in 1873 aged 38.Given that there is no evidence that Christy and Angus married,it is possible that she may have died soon after the birth,before they had a chance to marry.Incidentally,did the Will mention the address of Fraser's home in Edinburgh?If so,I can check the Presbytery Minutes for the churches in the neighbourhood,and ascertain if the couple were hauled up to answer a charge of pre-marital hanky-panky(Presbyteries were obsessed with this).
Regarding the occupation title of Writer,I have found that it is most often used to describe an educated and trained Lawyer,but has also been used to describe someone who has experience of working in a Lawyer's office on legal matters.
Going back to Sir James Robertson's Journal,I managed to locate a copy of it on the Internet,and go over the references that you found.I would advise a wee bit of caution over the various references to the name Cameron within it,as there were approx.100 Cameron households on the Island of Mull at this time - all with the usual small variation in first names.For instance,the Cameron who had suffered the face injury and drooping eyelid,is referred to as "Cameron on Dumbuck",so I think that it would rule out Angus.Equally the Alexander and Donald Camerons would seem to be unconnected to the family of Angus,and I think it is a long shot that the "A.Cameron" who had got married in March 1845,was Angus.It might have been him,but the chances are it wasn't.The mystery,however,is what happened to him after 1846 though it seems likely that young Archibald went to America the year after,as his father had probobly died by then.I would guess tha Angus was unrelated to the family living in the house he was registered to in the 1841 Census - he would just be a lodger.
Going back to Archibald Fraser's Will,it mentioned the fact that Angus's brother Donald was living in Culross.This is a village on the south coast of the County of Fife,and gives us another possible link to young Archibald being resident there at the time of the 1841 Census.
Regards,Chris.
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Post by jjeonchapman on Sept 8, 2009 16:32:10 GMT -6
Hello Bob and Chris,
It is great to hear from both of you! I shall have to study the Kinlochleven genealogical chart on the Camerons of Australia site to familiarize myself more with the history of this branch of the family.
Bob, the information you provided about the death of Major Angus in Montreal is very interesting. The fact that he died in the home of his son-in-law, Ranney, esquire, just 10 days after the death of Mr. Ranney suggests that perhaps they both died from Typhus Fever which had thrown Montreal into crisis mode at that time. Next time I go to Montreal I will have to do some searching, and at least try to find Seymour Street and possibly the tombs of Mr. Ranney and Major Angus.
The name "Ranney" makes me think that this son-in-law could have been Anne Cameron's first husband. I know nothing of the fate of Elizabeth, but Anne Cameron married Edmund Boyle later in life in Ontario sometime after the death in 1850 of his wife, Elizabeth Cole, and became step-mother to his many children. When conducting a search focusing on the Boyle family, a family tree popped up that claimed that Edmund Boyle married Anne Ramsey. I made note of this name and thought at the time that it was possible that she had been married previous to her marriage with Mr. Boyle. After seeing your information I tend to think that Major Angus died in Anne's house. I wonder which name is correct, "Ranney" or "Ramsey." After struggling to read 19th century script, the one could easily be interpreted as the other, both names being quite similar. Something to be investigated.
Anne and Edmund turn up in the Census of Canada in 1860 as a married couple, he, 66 years old and listed to be from Ireland, she, 58, from Scotland. In the 1871 Census of Canada Edmund is 75 and Anne is 67. In both cases there is an 8-year difference in age, but if one calculates the year of birth, one comes up with 1802 for Anne according to the 1860 census, and 1804 re the 1871 census. I'm not sure which date of birth is correct for Anne. On the 1860 census their religion is listed as Episcopalian, and in 1871, Church of England. I do believe that the step-mother of the Boyle children was also the aunt of Archibald Fraser Cameron, as that was repeated in the papers written by Eva Cameron's sister, Emily, who knew her personally, plus her photo was identified in the photo album as "Anne Cameron," step-mother to the Boyles.
Bob, your information regarding Major Angus' marriage to Marjory MacBean does match up, but can you explain why two dates are given for the wedding?
Chris, I much prefer your interpretation of /Archibald Fraser Cameron's birth situation. After my last post I though more on the matter and had come to the same conclusion as you: that Angus Cameron was indeed the father and that Archibald Fraser was a generous and kind man, a worthy namesake for any child. Mary Cameron would not have left her fortune to Angus Lochiel Cameron and Archibald Fraser Cameron's other children if Angus had not been the father of Archibald. In fact, I wonder if that large inheritance from Mary was due to the wise suggestion of Archibald Fraser, Writer (I also found him listed as "Esquire") to purchase life insurance on Mary Cameron's life. I guess his intention again was to try to secure young Archibald's future.
The will said only that Archibald Fraser died in his house on George Street, Edinburgh, but I found another reference to Archibald Fraser which lists the address as #10 George Street. I would be very interested in hearing what you turn up in reference to that address.
The birth date that my papers indicated was: 13 Aug. 1832 in Edinburgh. Achibald Fraser died early in 1835, Jan. 6th, so that would put Archibald Fraser Cameron at 2 1/2 years old at the death of his namesake. Archibald Cameron's daughter guessed that he came to America (I don't know where he landed, whether in Canada or USA, but I'd guess Canada) when he was about 12, having been orphaned, in the company of a Mr. Burdon. That would be around 1844, before the death of Major Angus. I wonder if he was joining his aunt and uncle Ranny/Ramsey in Montreal. That would make sense, and it would also explain why he ends up in Picton with Anne and the Boyles where he meets his future wife, Jane Boyle, step-daughter of Anne Cameron Ranny/Ramsey Boyle.
I returned to the will of Archibald Fraser to try to decipher what he left Angus in addition to his watch, and I believe it is a large sum of money to be deposited in a Bank. I think it reads: To the said Angus Cameron my watch and 1000 pounds to the augmentation hereof in the Bank of Council and Sepion or others competent therein to remain for preservation and to the effect constitute." I don't think I got all the words right, but I do think that he gave a very large sum to Angus for the child's future. Archibald Fraser can indeed be likened to a guardian angel for little Archibald and a Godsend to the young couple.
I very much appreciate this international assistance from the Cameron clan on two different continents, and look forward to hearing more from you in the future.
Judy
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Post by robertscam on Sept 9, 2009 0:19:58 GMT -6
My Canadian geography is practically non-existent, Judy. But the death entry in the paper said Seymour, Upper Canada, with no mention of Montreal (that came from your source). Do you know what is/was classified as Upper Canada? Seymour sounds like a town to me, rather than a street.
As for the second marriage date, are you looking at the paper's date. Of course plenty of apparent marriages are recorded on separate dates in the parish registers, sometimes meaning banns in his and her parishes.
Bob
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Post by ChrisDoak on Sept 9, 2009 10:56:46 GMT -6
Hi Judy,
Thank you for the address in Edinburgh of Archibald Fraser - that should do fine.It is a nice posh address,with only three or four churches nearby,so hopefully their Presbytery Minutes will reveal something interesting.I intend to go through to Edinburgh on Friday,so will check then.(Hopefully neither the Camerons or Mr Fraser of George Street were Episcopalians,as their records are not widely available - only the Church of Scotland ones).
Going back a few posts,you mentioned the refence to John (I have it noted as James Cameron ) of Kinlochleven offering "two handsome men" to the Duke of Gordon for the rentals of two farms.James was the son of Angus Cameron and his second wife Janet,and because he was one of the Executors of his nephew the young Angus,he ran the Kinlochleven Estate from 1762 - circa 1778.He was offering the Duke these two young men,as the Duke of Gordon was attempting to raise a Regiment from the tenants on his Estate of Lochaber (and get paid for it handsomely by the government).Young Angus of Kinlochleven was also offered for enlistment to the Duke's Northern Regiment of Fencible Highlanders,he being 16,and I think this was the start of his Military career.
I have had a look at the London Gazette on the Internet,and the following seems to be a record of the advancement of his Army career:
-5 March 1779:Northern Regiment of Fencible Highlanders:To be Ensign - Angus Cameron,Gentleman.
-24 September 1785:37th Regiment of Foot:To be Ensign - Angus Cameron,Gentleman.
-6 September 1788:37th Regiment:To be Lieutenant on death of Lt.Thomas White - Ensign Angus Cameron.
-5 May 1791:37th Regiment:Lt.Angus Cameron promoted to an Independant Company.
-9 December 1794:Inverness-shire Company of Volunteers:Captain Angus Cameron to be a Captain.
-26 September 1797:Coast of the County of Inverness:Captain Angus Cameron to be Major Commandent.
Regards,Chris.
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Post by jjeonchapman on Sept 9, 2009 15:56:58 GMT -6
Dear Bob and Chris,
I read both of your posts with great interest.
Being from the United States, I am not very well versed in Canadian history, but after your post I did some quick surfing online to verify where Upper Canada is. At one time Canada was divided into Upper and Lower Canada, Lower Canada being the French-speaking area--including Quebec. Upper Canada refers to the English-speaking part of Canada, which would include Ontario, where Anne Cameron and Archibald Fraser Cameron ended up. There is a street in Montreal named Seymour, but after reading your post and doing a bit of research I think that the source I had found is misleading. In Ontario there is a township of Seymour, surveyed and laid out first of all in 1819 and later again in 1833. Listed among the first settlers of Seymour is a Mr. Rannie. Seymour had only 2,117 inhabitants in 1850, and two thirds of them were "native," and the other 1/3 settlers from England, Ireland and Scotland, although fewer Scottish settlers than English and Irish. Quite a few retired half-pay military and naval officers located in the township after the first survey in 1819. There may still be descendants of Rannie in the area as a Mr. George Rannie is mentioned as a government employee (but I'm not sure at what date). This is a great lead! I found a website from the area that had some genealogical information. There was a Mr. Henry Burden who married Jane Morris in 1850--I wonder if he's the Mr. Burdon [sic] who brought Archibald F. Cameron from Scotland to Canada. There was only one Cameron whose name began with an "L": Lachlan Cameron, who married Flora Gillespie in 1847. Fannie and Julia Gillespie signed Eva Cameron's autograph book. There is a diary entry that states that L. Cameron died 1863. Apparently Major Angus did die in Ontario as both Chris' and your sources have said. I wonder why my source said "Montreal." I wonder if there were a house or street in Seymour township with the name "Montreal."
Out of curiosity I checked the list of Camerons in that area, and found an Alexander Cameron who married an Elizabeth Sheffield in 1838, four different Donald Camerons, 2 Elizabeth Camerons, one who married Duncan Smith in 1853 and one who married Edward Stevenson in 1840. There are too many John Camerons to list. In addition to these details, I noticed while reviewing Eva Cameron's autograph book that an Amy Lyons signed it--and there is a photograph of her among the Scottish photographs actually labelled, so she must have immigrated from Scotland between 1860 and 1870.
Chris, thank you for explaining the circumstances surrounding the letter from which I quoted earlier, and for sharing your research regarding the military career of Major Angus Cameron. What does "independent" unit in the military mean?
Anne Cameron was listed as Episcopalian and also as a member of the Church of England. I wonder which church Angus Cameron, father of Archibald, belonged to. It will be interesting to see what you find.
I will try to find out more about Seymour Township. Its small size should make research easier--I hope.
Judy
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Post by jjeonchapman on Sept 11, 2009 12:16:42 GMT -6
Hello Chris and Bob,
I came across Archibald Fraser Cameron in the 1861 Census of Canada. He is usually listed as "Arch Cameron" or "Archbd Cameron." This document shows his residence as Belleville, Hastings, Ontario, which isn't new information, but it confirms what the papers I found said. This doc. says his birth year is abt. 1834, which differs from the 1870 St. Louis, MO USA Census that claims his birth year was 1832. His wife Jane's birth age is listed as 20, and little Eva is 3, and Mary 1. The religion listed is difficult to read, but I think it says "Church of England." Arch's profession is listed as "Banker."
I see that I accidentally misquoted the death date for L Cameron. It should be 1863 (I will modify the post).
Another word about Seymour. I haven't found any specific information, but did learn that after 1826 free land grants were only available in Upper Canada to loyalist or military settlers. All others had to purchase land. This would explain why so many military men settled there.
Judy
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Post by SherbrookeJacobite on Sept 11, 2009 13:00:09 GMT -6
Hi All, I have been following the thread with great interest - I always find these discussions fascinating. A couple comments from a Canadian perspective. Upper Canada basically became Onrtario, and Lower Canada became Quebec. English speaking Canada, in a historical context - after Confederation, would also include Nova Scotia and New Brunswick . Without being too confusing - Canada, from 1840 to 1867, was a Province, consisting of Upper and Lower Canada (which makes sense if you look at the St. Lawrence River). In 1867 Upper and Lower Canada joined with New Brunswick and Nova Scotia to form the Dominion of Canada. Unlike our Southern Neighbours, we retained our ties to Great Britain, and the Monarchy (which is why Queen Elizabeth is our Head of State). You may also find references to West Canada (Ontario) and East Canada (Quebec) in some 19th century documents, which adds to the confusion, because modern references to "West" Canada usually refer to Provinces West of Ontario, and "East" Canada, to a Westerner is everything east of Manitoba, and to one living on the East Coast, would only include the Atlantic Provinces.
Census data, while very useful, often contains errors, in both spelling of names, and years of birth. Country of origin is also sometimes incorrect.
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Post by jjeonchapman on Sept 11, 2009 21:34:03 GMT -6
It is good to hear a voice from Canada. Thank you for explaining the various terms I've been running into. The last census I referred to, from 1861, was of Canada West, actually. That term did really throw me the first time I came across it as I used to live in Seattle and thought of British Columbia as Western Canada. Any suggestions concerning where to go to look online for records from Seymour, Ontario? I would like to visit the genealogical center in that area, but can't at the moment.
Judy
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Post by robertscam on Sept 12, 2009 1:35:48 GMT -6
Thanks for the history/geography lesson John. I'm sure I won't remember it, but I will remember where to come back to look for it. It seems dates really do matter.
Bob
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Post by ChrisDoak on Sept 12, 2009 4:02:15 GMT -6
Hi Judy,
Whilst through in Edinburgh yesterday,I checked the Session Minutes of the three Church of Scotland churches serving the locality of the New Town of Edinburgh (within which George Street lies).Unfortunately,or maybe fortunately,no mention of unacceptable behaviour between Angus Cameron and Christy Cameron.Given that the birth of Archibald Fraser Cameron is not recorded in the Church of Scotland baptisms on the IGI and elsewhere,I am now leaning towards an Episcopal Church connection.The Episcopal Church records for Edinburgh are kept at the National Archives there,and with a bit of luck,I should be able to check them out next week.
Going back to the military career of Major Angus Cameron of Kinlochleven,I would confirm that the Independant Company that he joined after he left the 37th Regiment,was called thus,because it was a militia seperate from the official Army.A number of militias were established at the end of the 18th century,as a defence against possible invasion from France.Every able-bodied man in the district,not already enlisted in the Army,would be obliged to register to be called-up at short notice,should an invasion occur.They would be in a state of preparedness,and would often assemble at weekends and other times,to practise maneouvres etc..
The 37th Regiment of Foot,incidentally,was known as the North Hampshire Regiment.Hampshire is in the south of England,but it doesn't mean that Angus had any connection with the area.He would have been looking for a career in the Army,and looking for any Commission to purchase - he probobly wasn't fussy.It would just be a case,however,that a vacancy came up at the 37th Regiment first,and he duly applied for it. The 37th Regiment,at the time that he served with them,were garrisoned in Halifax,Nova Scotia,so it is likely that he spent some time in Canada.
Regards,Chris.
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Post by jjeonchapman on Sept 12, 2009 9:49:28 GMT -6
Hello all,
Thanks, Chris, for the report concerning your expedition to the Churches of Scotland in Edinburgh. Would there have been a Church of England in Edinburgh? I ask because that seems to have been the affiliation of Archibald Fraser Cameron in Belleville, Ontario. But perhaps that choice had more to do with what was available in a fairly new settlement. Once again, I am not too familiar with the distinction between Church of Scotland, Church of England, Presbytarian and Episcopalian and the history of those churches. Was there a tendency towards a particular church amongst the Cameron Clan? amongst the Camerons of Kinlochleven?
That is also interesting that Major Angus might have been stationed at some time in Nova Scotia. In many of my searches online Nova Scotia kept coming up but I disregarded those records because I assumed that it was unlikely for Major Angus or Archibald to have gone there. I'll pay more attention to those now and see if anything turns up.
By the way, speaking of ship lists, how was military travel recorded? Did they travel on special military ships, or did they travel alongside civilian immigrants? From which port would Archibald Fraser Cameron's ship have left, do you think, and where in Canada would it have been likely to arrive if the ultimate destination was to rejoin his aunt Ann(e) in Ontario?
Regards,
Judy
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Post by SherbrookeJacobite on Sept 14, 2009 12:32:44 GMT -6
I don't mean to jump in uninvited, but I can answer at least part of the religion question. Church of Scotland = Presbyterian, Chuch of England = Episcopalian. I don't know about the Camerons of Kinlochleven (although if I had to guess, I would guess Presbyterian). Lochiel's family has been Episcopalian for quite some time, including the era that you are currently discussing. Among the rest of the Clan it was a mixture. I would say a majority were Presbyterian, some were Roman Catholic, and some Episcopalian.
Hope this is of some use.
John
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Post by SherbrookeJacobite on Sept 14, 2009 12:35:37 GMT -6
Thanks for the history/geography lesson John. I'm sure I won't remember it, but I will remember where to come back to look for it. It seems dates really do matter. Bob You're very welcome. Dates do matter - especially when, in Canada's case, it took us a long time to figure out who and what we were! Slainte, John
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Post by SherbrookeJacobite on Sept 14, 2009 13:53:02 GMT -6
It is good to hear a voice from Canada. Thank you for explaining the various terms I've been running into. The last census I referred to, from 1861, was of Canada West, actually. That term did really throw me the first time I came across it as I used to live in Seattle and thought of British Columbia as Western Canada. Any suggestions concerning where to go to look online for records from Seymour, Ontario? I would like to visit the genealogical center in that area, but can't at the moment. Judy No problem - I'm happy to help when I can. Unfortunately, I don't know of any sites to point you to to research Seymour. I usually start with Canada GenWeb, and follow links from there. Good luck with your search! Slainte, John
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