Alans
Dedicated Clansperson
Posts: 197
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Post by Alans on Mar 17, 2004 4:34:23 GMT -6
Val, This is fabulous stuff! What would we do without your contributions and Chris also?
Best regards Alan!
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Post by gaelgal on Mar 17, 2004 7:30:37 GMT -6
I agree wholeheartedly! I have surely enjoyed reading these as much as I enjoyed listening to you tell me about your visits and studies of the records in Scotland when we met at last year's Grandfather Mountain Games, Val! How wonderful that you can do this ~ and so much more so that you are able and willing to share it with us! Thank you!!
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Post by ChrisDoak on Mar 20, 2004 4:18:15 GMT -6
Well,hopefully we can get the puzzle over the 1747 letter sewn up today,and thanks to Mrs Cameron-Head's timely scrawl on the back of the letter.
I will be eternally grateful for "Burke's Landed Gentry"of 1921 for providing me with the following information about the Cameron-Head dynasty:
Starting off with Christian at generation no.7:
7.CHRISTIAN MARY CAMERON.Daughter of:
6.DUNCAN CAMERON.b.1819.,married to Alexandra Gillespie.Son of:
5.Sir ALEXANDER CAMERON of Inverailort.b.1788.,married to Christian MacDonald.Son of:
4.DONALD CAMERON of Glendessary,b.Murligan 1725.,married to Helen MacDonald of Achtriachtan,Glencoe.Son of:
3.ALAN CAMERON,b.1688,served with his Chief in the 1715 Rebellion,and married in 1723 Christian,daughter of Allan Cameron of Glendessary and Christian Cameron(daughter of Sir Ewan Cameron of Lochiel).Alan died in 1747.Son of:
2.ALAN CAMERON,b.1656.,married 1679 Margaret Cameron of Glendessary(grand-daughter of Alan Cameron of Lochiel).Alan was killed at the Battle of Killiekrankie in 1689.Son of:
1.CHARLES CAMERON.
The writer of the letter is therefore a John Cameron of the Glendessary family,and a brother of Donald (4.)That would make him a nephew of John Cameron of Glendessary.
Phew,what a relief!
Cheers to all,Chris.
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Post by Cameronian on Mar 23, 2004 17:50:30 GMT -6
Thank you Chris, I doubt that there is much more that I can add to the Glendessary line at the moment, and the Inverailort line as submitted to Burkes Landed Gentry appears to be as notes in the Cameron-Head archives describe it, however I think I should have a note sent to the Highland Archives in Inverness to be attached to the original letter dated December 1747 describing the origins of the line as now defined.
As time permits I will get back into these Fassifern papers, re-reading some of them now brings to mind questions raised by some of the documents relating to John Cameron Ballie of Morvern and Margaret Cameron his relict and the disputed Glendessary lands mentioned therein…..
Hoping that we can engage more Scottish Camerons in this research, after all the material is with you all over there, we can only hope for short periods full on lengthy days to access this history.
With much gratitude..........Val
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Post by ChrisDoak on Mar 27, 2004 5:08:58 GMT -6
Hi Val,
I came across a couple of very detailed articles on the Camerons of Glendessary and Dungallon yesterday.
Authored by James N.M.Maclean yr. of Glensanda,they are contained within the Journals of the Scottish Genealogy Society,as follows:
-Volume 18,No.4,pages 74 - 90.(1971). -Volume 19,No.2,pages 51 - 62.(1972).
Have you seen them?
If not,and it might prove difficult for you to source them in Australia,E-mail me a postal address for yourself,and I shall send you a photocopy.
Just to finish off the earlier ancestors in the Cameron-Head of Inverailort family,in case anyone is interested.Starting from the Charles I concluded with last time:
-CHARLES CAMERON,b.1622,d.1660.Married to Grace Stewart.Son off: -EWEN CAMERON,b.1580,hanged for cattle-lifting 1630.Married Flora Mackenzie in 1620.Son of: -ALAN CAMERON,b.1560,d.1630.Married to Margaret Cameron of Glenevis.Son of: -EWEN CAMERON,b.1530.He was the 1st Cameron of Erracht,and was assassinated at a Clan Meeting at Inverlochy in 1580.Married to Margaret Stewart.Son of: -EWEN CAMERON,13th Chief of Lochiel,married to Mary Mackintosh as his 2nd wife.
Regards to all, Chris.
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Post by Robert S Cameron on Apr 12, 2004 0:58:50 GMT -6
This is all great. I've been waiting for you, Chris and Val, to sort out these families, so I can steal them to put into my work. It all seems to make sense by now. Back to your note of 13th March, Chris, regarding the age of Christian Cameron, daughter of Sir Ewen and Jean Barclay. I have a marriage contract date for Sir Ewen as 1 Jan 1685 and for Christian and Allan Cameron of Glendessary as 28 Dec 1699. Assuming Christian is the first child of the marriage, she would be about 14 or 15 at the time of her marriage. We might think of her as a wee child, but I'm not sure they did then. So her daughter Jean could have been born 1700, fitting in with you information on her. What do you think of this?
Bob C.
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Post by ChrisDoak on Apr 15, 2004 10:09:09 GMT -6
Hi Bob,
I've seen so much conflicting information on Jean Cameron,that I'm not too sure exactly when she could have been born.Certainly,the historian who recorded her age as being "more 50,than 40" when she made an appearance at Glenfinnan in 1745,was most likely less than flattering to her.I believe that Jean had been recently widowed,so naturally enough,would not be looking at her best.
Jean's younger (?)sister Christian was married in 1723,so that would most likely give Jean a birthdate of 1705/6 ish.There apparently was another sister,but I've yet to come across any specific mention of her.
Certainly,that whole Glendessary family are a nightmare to decipher.Jean's great-grandfather,Donald Cameron,1st of Glendessary,and Tutor of Lochiel,had at least 37 grandchildren,of whom 27 were boys.The tentacles of this family spread throughout Morven,Ardgour,Sunart,and Strontian at an alarming rate throughout the late 1600s/early 1700s.Once again I must commend the 1971 article in the Scottish Genealogist journal for helping me to understand that line.Have you seen it?If not,let me know,and I shall send you a copy to help out with your records.
Regards,Chris.
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Post by Robert S Cameron on Apr 24, 2004 19:38:20 GMT -6
Thanks, Chris
I would love to see a copy of that. I don't know it.
Bob c.
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Post by Cameronian on May 19, 2004 2:12:39 GMT -6
A further small entry that we can make in relation to Jean Cameron of Glendessary found in the “Argyll Estate Instructions.
As noted below the full list of the forty-five inhabitants on this Estate were called Cameron, it may be of use to locate this volume residing at Inverary Castle and check these Cameron names…….
Copy letter his Grace the Duke of Argyll to John Campbell of Airds 7 Jan 1780.
I have received your letter inclosing a memorial from Dugald Gregorson. I shall consider of that matter and give you an answer soon. As to the tack of Inemore** I think it best to let Mr John McLean have it at the former rent by a new tack from year to year only, and not in consequence of any former bargain he made with Cameron as I look upon that to be null and void.
If he does not choose to have it upon these conditions the present possessors are to have it at the same rent from year to year only. You must take care that, whoever has it, the conditions of the original tack as to improvements stipulated to be made should be complied with, which from the precarious situation this farm has been in will probably be neglected if not particularly attended to.
I am, (signed) Argyll
** The farm Innimore or Inemore in Morvern had been in tack to Jean Cameron, daughter of John Cameron of Glendessary. It was one of the few farms left to the clan Cameron in Morvern. In 1779 all its forty-five inhabitants were called Cameron. (Ref) Lists of the People on the Argyll Estate 1779, a MS at Inveraray Castle, published in 1963 by the Scottish Record Society.
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Post by ChrisDoak on May 22, 2004 2:58:21 GMT -6
Hi Val, It was this Innimore which caused a flurry of excitement 3 or 4 years ago,when it appeared out of the mist (in a Brigadoon fashion),during logging work in the area.Abandoned some 100 years ago,the township was engulfed in a massive forestation project a few years later.
Dramatic pictures in the newspapers showed the moss-encrusted walls of the stone houses,revealed to daylight for the first time in half a century.The Cameron connection was well-noted in the articles.
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Post by Cameronian on May 22, 2004 18:03:39 GMT -6
“It was this Innimore which caused a flurry of excitement 3 or 4 years ago,when it appeared out of the mist (in a Brigadoon fashion),during logging work in the area.Abandoned some 100 years ago,the township was engulfed in a massive forestation project a few years later”.
Morning Chris,
Interesting is it not!
The intent and focus of those us researching ancestry outwith Scotland is to attempt to reconnect our ancestors into those families left behind in Scotland. The media reports at the time of the uncovering of this derelict village of Innimore were giving full credibility to the story of Jeannie Cameron leading her brother’s men down to Bonnie Prince Charlie, never to return to their village.
Yet the Argyll papers clearly show that the village of Innimore in 1779 contained forty-five inhabitants called Cameron. And that it’s ‘derelict’ condition was not the result of the Glendessary line leaving the village, but that of later re-possession and leasing by the Duke of Argyll
We know that these Glendessary lands were described as being ‘outside the Clan lands’ and that the wadsets were a result of an exchange of money between Cameron and Argyll (making Argyll indebted to Cameron), it is my understanding that these were then resumed by Argyll in the Forfeiture of Cameron lands after the rising.
We know that many ancestors never returned to the Estates, but here we have proof of forty-five of them, connected in some manner to the Glendessary line still at that time living there.
During my forthcoming visit I will try and locate this copy the MS at Inveraray Castle, published in 1963 by the Scottish Record Society, knowing who resided there may possibly help understand why children of these Camerons born in that area finally ended up in Australia
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Post by Elizabeth on Jun 8, 2004 11:21:08 GMT -6
Hello Bhal 's a h-uile duine, As a Cameron descendant who can only read in admiration all the research that you folks have done, may I just add my ha'pence worth to the Glendessary discussion. I don't know if any of you has read the book " d**n Rebel Bitches - The Women of the '45". In it, the author, Maggie Craig, says that Jane, or Jennie, Cameron was the daughter of Hugh Cameron of Glendessary and that she was probably married to an Irishman called O'Neill. She divorced O'Neill because of his ill treatment of her and returned to her brother's home. After the '45 and unwilling to watch the devastation of her home in Morvern, she settled in East Kilbride in Central Scotland where she bought an estate and mansion house. To paraphrase, she died in 1772 and was buried on her estate. The inscription on her stone reads: Quote."Site of the grave of Mrs Jean Cameron who died in 1772. Her zealous attachment to the house of Stuart and the active part she took to support it's interest in the year 1745, made her well known throughout the country. The house occupied by Jean Cameron ,which stood nearby, was demolished in 1958 when this horse chestnut was planted" Unquote. The streets around her grave include the names, Glendessary, Mount Cameron Drive, Glen Nevis and other Highland names.There were many scurrilous stories about Jennie Cameron, put about by the Georgian pamphleteers of the day. A Bhal. Re the letter mentioning Camus an "Taan"? There is a place halfway up Loch Morar, on the north shore - the opposite shore to Meoble. It is called Camus an Braan. We know that there were Camerons (probably Erracht) in that area. The late Floyd MacDonald of Cape Breton, Canada, was a descendant of these Camerons. It's along shot but..... Over to you, na caraidean. Oidhche mhath. Ealasaid.
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Post by Elizabeth on Jun 8, 2004 11:32:00 GMT -6
To say the least of it, there is an decided peculiarity as to how this website interpretes certain words! The title of the aforementioned book is not as it appears. It should read" "d**n Rebel and then go on to say the word which denotes a female dog! If it refuses to co-operate this time, I leave it to you work it out for yourselves. Ealasaid
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Post by Cameronian on Aug 3, 2004 11:08:02 GMT -6
This will possibly entail further work for Chris and my apologies for the miss-spelling of the local Estates, which are very difficult to read in the handwritten script.
This is a further note I located, written by Alastair Cameron (North Argyll) from his hospital bed in Oban, possibly just after the publication of the article printed in the Transactions of the Gaelic Soc of Inverness “Some Stray Notes on The Camerons of Glendeshary” which were written in 1937. …..unfortunately the letter is undated.
“ In regard to Miss Jenny Cameron of Glendessary who died at Mt Cameron, Lanarkshire otherwise, Blacklaw, her instructions to be buried in the burying ground at Keil, or to give it it’s full name Killcollumkill were not carried out.
She was buried in a clump of trees in the grounds of Mt Cameron, and I understand that her grave was opened afterwards by some person or persons who believed jewellery had been buried with her. Subsequently I understand the trees were cut down and the ground ploughed up while the property reverted to its old name of Blacklaw. As far as I am aware no monument was erected to her in Keil graveyard. Whether the money she left for the poor of Morvern was ever allocated I never heard. Her nephew Donald Cameron resided for some time at Blacklaw; He was an officer in the Army married an English lady but died shortly after in India I think leaving no issue
John Cameron, 1st of Glendessary had several brothers Allan, Donald , Ewen, Hugh and Alexander all of whom left families but the name Charles does not appear.
There seems to have quite a bit of inter marrying among them, so the family tree is a bit of a jigsaw puzzle.
I know that Lochiel’s great grandfather married in 1832 Vere Catherine, daughter of Vere Hobart, son of the duke of Buckinghamshire, her mother was a daughter of Jean Cameron’s niece who married MacLean, Three brothers, MacLeans of Coll married daughters of Allan Cameron of Glendessary. The Hon Vere Hobart died abroad and his wife and infant daughter your Gt Grandmother had to come back home.
I heard a story that one of the Rankin’s pipers to the MacLean’s of Coll was serving along with the Hon Vere Hobart but when he died he accompanied the widow and child as their attendant and caretaker till they got safely home.
Some interesting information can be got in the Register of Sasines about the Glendessarys and their kinsmen. At one time they had places practically in all parts of Morvern and Ardnamurchan, as well such Glenbeg Glenhurich, Arcundle, Carnock Achern Beach and Rahoy.
The Rev Donald MacLean of Dochgarroch the Parsonage Pitlochary may be able to supplement information on Donald Cameron, Jean’s nephew.
It may interest you that before leaving Morvern Jean Cameron at least I don’t think it would be her niece Jean, although on my present information it may be possible, had the lands of Inniemore in Morvern and there were 35 families on it all Camerons.
There was a tradition in my Macphie grandmother’s family, (her grandmother was a Cameron) that an ancestor Alexander Cameron of Claonlues and Stone Morvern. Nursed or fostered Jean, daughter of Cameron of Glendessary till she was between twelve and fourteen years of age and when he sent her home he sent with her as a present 20 cows a bull and a riding pony, Of course I cannot say if this was the famous Jean Cameron or her niece.
Well I am afraid I shall now have to stop. I am able to be up every day and getting out a bit.
With kind regards and best wishes
Yours sincerely
Alastair Cameron
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